canon xa20/25 dynamic range

B

Bruce Watson

Veteran
Any of you Canon XA20/25 owners out there care to comment on the camera's dynamic range?

I do a fair amount of inside shooting, and I'm wondering if exterior windows will be completely blown out, or whether the camera can deliver some highlight detail there. I'm not expecting 14 stops from the single small sensor, but I would like to have an idea of what it can actually do.
 
I certainly wouldn't expect it. Even in the film world they put a neutral density material on the windows to control exposure and bring some detail to the outside subjects.
 
So no one has any idea of the dynamic range of the XA20? Really? All those wedding shooters out there and no one is interested in whether or not this camera can pull detail on the black tux and the white dress at the same time?

Maybe so. I've been up and down youtube looking at xa20 vids, and aside from gazillions of low light tests (which doesn't tell me what I want to know) and stabilizer tests, I came up with not much at all.

Interesting that the camera's been available on the market for months now and I can't find any hard testing data. I must not be looking in the right place. But then again, that's why I was asking -- to find the right place. Sigh...
 
Bruce, I do not own this camera but researched it a bit. In short, I would not expect miracles. From what I have gathered, it is a consumer camera at heart with some pro features thrown in for a few models. Take a look at XF100/300 footage and know that the XA20 will not exceed these images. I know that sounds backwards but it is reality. The low light tests really turned me off of this camera as it could not keep up with an Panasonic HMC-150 without adding the gain on.
 
Bassman2003 said:
Take a look at XF100/300 footage and know that the XA20 will not exceed these images.
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It should exceed the XF100. Because the sensor is a little bit bigger that the XF100, and because it's two years newer. But whether it does or not, that's what I'm trying to find out. Interesting that none of the owners seem to want to say anything. Come on guys / gals, I don't bite.
 
I do not think you can automatically make that assumption. Camera makers have always priced cameras on image quality. You are comparing a $1,500-$2,000 camera to a $3,000+ camera. They might be close or the XA20 might be better, but the XF100 has better processing, image control options and a 4:2:2 codec as it was designed for the broadcast world.
 
Bassman2003 said:
I do not think you can automatically make that assumption. Camera makers have always priced cameras on image quality. You are comparing a $1,500-$2,000 camera to a $3,000+ camera. They might be close or the XA20 might be better, but the XF100 has better processing, image control options and a 4:2:2 codec as it was designed for the broadcast world.
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Whatever -- what about dynamic range??? That's the only question I'm asking here.
 
Bruce .. Google 'Canon XA20 dynamic range' but why not rent one and find out if it suits your purpose.

Cheers.
 
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I think you need to clarify what you are looking for, the exact DR numbers or opinions? I don't think you want to buy or use a camera based upon opinions... Two of us have alluded to better cameras not being able to keep windows from blowing out when exposing for indoors, so the XA20 probably will follow suit. And yes, processing does make a difference. Allan is right on in thinking nothing is better than trying it yourself. I have been in your position and have realised the best way is to try to get your hands on one. Seriously, we are not being coy. :)

I have seen all I need to see from XA20 footage. Just look at outdoor footage that can not keep the highlights, and it is exposed for outdoors! The lack of users gives me pause as well.
 
Have you seen this? Might be helpful - test video that's mostly in bright sunlight with a neutral density filter for shallower depth of field.

I have the XF100, but use Cine gammas and customized settings to flatten the exposure. I use the wave form monitor and zebras to make sure I'm not exceeding limits, and when in doubt I keep highs under control as a first priority. But I can't tell you how many stops of DR I'm getting - wouldn't even know how to measure it. I'd say most XA20 users also don't know what to tell you.
 
Having had an XA10 and now HF-G30 similar to the XA20 the only thing i would say is not better is the AF which is a slight let down.
 
Bruce Watson said:
It should exceed the XF100. Because the sensor is a little bit bigger that the XF100, and because it's two years newer. But whether it does or not, that's what I'm trying to find out. Interesting that none of the owners seem to want to say anything. Come on guys / gals, I don't bite.
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Sensor is actually smaller, as it is 1/2.7. The images look much worse then XF100, codec is weak by comparison. XF100 is far better camera at the moment.
 
snowblindfilm said:
Sensor is actually smaller, as it is 1/2.7. The images look much worse then XF100, codec is weak by comparison. XF100 is far better camera at the moment.
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I have both cameras. "Better" and "Worse" are subjective. They're different. The XA20 sensor is actually larger - 1/2.7 is larger than 1/3, but hey, they're close enough to the same and the larger size may be just to accommodate the improved image stabilization on the XA20. The XA20 images are sharper, more saturated, and contrasty, even if you turn down the contrast and color in the image effects in the XA20 and boost the contrast and saturation in the XF100. A lot of people prefer this. I'm close but can't directly match the cameras, and yes, the XF100 codec is more forgiving so I'm mainly trying to get the XA20 look. Anyone with a suitable preset please chime in. There's a bit of a color difference, maybe more red in the XA20. But no trouble matching in post either way. The XA20 is much better in low light. Out of the camera the DR on the XA20 is noticeably wider than the XF100. Don't know what it is, I'd be guessing around 8 usable stops - I'd still say it's a major strength of this camera, not something mentioned in reviews. Very hard choice if you had to pick one or the other - I think I'd lean toward the XA20.
 
Just edited footage shot on XA. DR is not any better then XF100. I would say when it clips, it clips very harshly. XF100 still produces better colors imo.
 
Two things:

1. I've been looking at getting an XA25 but after reviewing hours of video on Vimeo and YouTube, it definitely has that "small sensor look" due in part, at least, to its limited dynamic range.

2. As a still photographer I normally shoot with cameras with really big sensors and wider dynamic range than all but a few video cameras and if it's full daylight outside, especially if it's sunny, you cannot expect to get both the interior and outside properly exposed in the same shot. There's ND material you can place over windows, you can artificially light the interior, you can shoot and the very end or beginning of the day before it's bright light out, etc. But basically, no, in answer to your question you cannot do it with an XA25 (or even a D800, which I just tried now to research your question).
 
Our use test of the XF100 compared to the XA20 was basically this conclusion . . the XF100 is an older camera with older technology inside it including sensor and Digic conversion . . whilst the XA20 had a look and feel image that exceeded our expectations. Moreover, we find that the lightweight size, the non intrusive look, allow us greater run-n-gun and lower visibility. That is, we have been able to film in locations where the TV crews were turned away. Moreover, with XLR's, Lanc, and nice smooth menu's, the XA20's replaced our XHA1s's and we've never turned back. The newer sensor technology has really added quality in the images that is measurably noticed positively.

We find that with a small LED light off eBay mounted on the XA20 the dynamic range is significantly improved with backlit situations.
 
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