Canon Unveils New Prosumer HDV Line: XH G1 and XH A1

I don't fault anyone for a Panasonic bias here given the name on the door. The reality is simply that there's a huge crowd hungering for quality HD 24P (yes, HDV 24F is pretty much that) at the DVX price range. In other words, truly "affordable HD". So far the A1 seems to be the only product that fills the bill. I have no doubts that great competitive products are around the corner, but the XH-A1 is likely to be the "big bang" camera that got all the starving indies and film students on board producing HD films. A lot like the DVX made SD digital filmmaking explode.

Sundance FF screens all digital entries at 1080 resolution from HDCAM decks. (many 16/35mm films too) I can guarantee that you will have a much nicer product to project on a giant theatrical screen than a DVX could possibly deliver.
 
Elton said:
TimurCivan, I'm talking about capturing the live camera head signal via SDI. This bypasses HDV compression and the image is true full raster uncompressed 4:2:2, not subsampled 4:2:2. I've captured this way numerous times into a G5/KonaLH setup using FCP "capture now" directly from the camera output. I usually capture with the Sheer lossless codec (45 MBs--http://www.bitjazz.com) and then transcode to PhotoJPEG later on to work with smaller, high quality clips (12-16 MBs). This preserves nearly all the spatial and chroma info the camera offers in an easily editable codec. It makes a difference in scenes with extremely challenging motion characteristics and definitely helps to achieve frighteningly good chroma keys. Loads of latitude for cc too.

You may find you won't need the HVX for overcrank unless you need frame rates between 30 and 60fps. I use a Nattress plug-in for FCP (Standards Conversion, Map
Frames) which does an extremely good job of converting 1080i to 720 60p. It will even do a surprisingly good job of making 1080 60p from 1080i in the HQ field to frames mode. You have to see it to understand it, but it definitely achieves good 2.5 slow mo that is very intercuttable with 24F in a 1080 24p timeline. You can also shoot 30F for a slight slow mo when conformed to 24p.

SDI 1080i is actually very flexible if you know how to work with it in post.
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ahh thats excellent, thank you. It sounds limiting as far as mobility but for static situations thats sounds great.
 
Zim said:
THe Canon A1 doesn't offer SMPTE . Is that much of a problem for one camera indie filmaking? Or what if you planned to have some on TV? Where is this a must?
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SMPTE is the Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers! IT DOES NOT JUST REFER TO ONE CONNECTOR!

There cameras have Timecode don't they? I mean they record it to tape? Yes of course the do! Well guess what? That's SMTPE standard timecode! Do they do "NTSC" color bars? Yes! Those are SMTPE Color Bars! Infact they are leinced from SMPTE! Is teh SMTPE standard timecode connector the only SMTPE connection on the camera? No! Geuss what, the SDI connections match SMTPE stanrds too!
There are loads of things that match SMTPE standards on all video cameras.

Use the acronyms correctly! Do you mean the SMTPE Timecode connector? Oh you do? THEN SAY TIMECODE!


- Mikko ... is picky today.
 
mikkowilson said:
SMPTE is the Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers! IT DOES NOT JUST REFER TO ONE CONNECTOR!

There cameras have Timecode don't they? I mean they record it to tape? Yes of course the do! Well guess what? That's SMTPE standard timecode! Do they do "NTSC" color bars? Yes! Those are SMTPE Color Bars! Infact they are leinced from SMPTE! Is teh SMTPE standard timecode connector the only SMTPE connection on the camera? No! Geuss what, the SDI connections match SMTPE stanrds too!
There are loads of things that match SMTPE standards on all video cameras.

Use the acronyms correctly! Do you mean the SMTPE Timecode connector? Oh you do? THEN SAY TIMECODE!


- Mikko ... is picky today.
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Mikko dont be so picky man... LOL i notice you always spell "the" as "teh" but we all know what you mean so keep your cools you are a cool lad & i have learnt a lot from you in my time on dvxuser. peace
 
Ok, yeah, good point.

But a Typo is one thing, totally misusing a term is different.

It's like answering the question "What video camera do you have?" with "It's a Sony!" or perhaps "It's a 'DSR'! " ... Gaah! This one of my big pet peves!

</rant>

That aside, thanks for the compliment. :beer: :)

- Mikko ... is lesdixic.
 
Mikko,,,,,so what are you saying? Look I don't want all the crap.,,,,,I just want to know how much of a problem not having SMTPE timcode on the A1 will be, if any? I shoot some video, put it in the computer and edit. Then burn a DVD or whatever. When will not having SMTPE timecode be a problem. Please.
 
The camera DOES record SMTPE standard timecode to tape. It's part of both the DV and HDV standard. If footage is DV or HDV (Or many other formats), it's SMTPE spec. TC.

The only thing that the A1 doens't have in comparison to the G1 related to timecode is a timecode input/output.



It's not like we call "TC" a "SMTPE member" ... though that would be funny. Jarred?

- Mikko
 
Omfg.

I just had a chance to view the STARWAY PICTURES SCENE 10 file on my television via DVI out to 32" Samsung CRT HDTV ....

Omfg. That image was so freaking sick.

I've seen it on my Dell Laptop, which looked okay. THen 30" Cinema HD, which looked eye popping...

CRT blew them all out of the water. Just, wow.

What I didn't notice, though, was the BETACAM SP box on the ground. That was too funny.
 
mikkowilson said:
The camera DOES record SMTPE standard timecode to tape. It's part of both the DV and HDV standard. If footage is DV or HDV (Or many other formats), it's SMTPE spec. TC.

The only thing that the A1 doens't have in comparison to the G1 related to timecode is a timecode input/output.



It's not like we call "TC" a "SMTPE member" ... though that would be funny. Jarred?

- Mikko
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Thanks
 
OK after a lot of thinking today I have weighed up the pros and cons of my next purchase. I own a DVX100A and reularly use a HVX and JVCHD100. I have been wondering weather to jump ship (the DVX) before I start shooting on my next project, and being a regular user of both HVX (this wont change thus I still want that bootcamp DVD whenyou guys Barry and Jarred can get one together) and JVChd100 these were the two cams on my radar. From my home end I have a new mac and FCP Studio latest HD version... just changed over in anticipation of my next move.

The best cam is the HVX read all the info blah blah (I mean look at all the recording optionms this baby has) ...... of course we havent seen the image from the A1 yet but I really do not feel that the HVX will suffer because of its little cousin that can (maybe) the A1 - totally different market IMO. The HD100 is a great camera IMO and I love the layout and look, as do the many people who stop and ask what it is. Best of all it produces a great image. But to change the lens that comes with the cam your looking at some major $$.

OK now we have the A1.

HVX here in Japan is cheap. Actually cheaper than the A1 by a fraction mind you, but once you add your p2 cards or other storage options etc the price goes up considerably - not to mention accessories etc.

One thing is the A1 lens screw mount is 72mm. Thus works with everything I already have. Wonder would it accept the Century 0.6 wide angle lens? (any thoughts on this from people with the knowledge?) Its lighter than the HVX and thus an easier ride on the Merlin I already own.

I also wonder would this work with the current letus flip? I mean the flip works by focusing on the gg and then focusing from the lens. So my brain says yes it would?

The cost is much cheaper in the end from any other upgrade I concieve, especially when you factor in matteboxes etc etc and having to by new to changeover (especially since I did just buy a new one). Did I also mention that next year I return to the sunny shores of AUS and a cam that is both NTSC and PAL compatible is also a major drawcard.

Looks like Ill be going in to order mine in the next few days. Thus I could actually be the first to have one on the board (being in Japan) - only problem is I would be so busy I would hardly have time to do big reviews at that stage but I will be sure to post up somme footage cut from dailies etc.

Luckily for some shots I can access the HVX for FREE (couldnt use it for an entire shoot - but a day or two here and there is fine) when I need those variable frame rates.

The DVX has been such a great camera. I will be sad to see it go.
 
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Let us know what the image is like NCJE. The DVX has been a great camera. I think people are almost happy to see it dethroned because it's gotten so much attention. I think it's a good thing when you outgrow your tools though.
 
I have no doubts about selling my FX1 and buying the XH A1. The only thing that could make me change my mind would be a new improved HDV/AVC camera from Pana, Sony, JVC. The control you have over the image on the XH A1 is amazing and it has pro audio (2 major points over the FX1). The only thing I'm going to miss from the FX1 is the awesome bigass LCD.
 
We probably shouldn't rule out Panasonic or Sony just yet. But I think I have the cash lined up for a A1 and will buy it if nothing better comes along.
 
Barry_Green said:
Man oh man though, if this had been AVC-HD instead of HDV I'd buy one today. BUT: the big question mark is the lens controls. I hate (despise, actually) the rubber-band loosey-goosey "wet cabbage" feel of the XLH1's lens. If Canon has addressed that, they may have a contender here. If they haven't addressed it, I don't care what it costs I wouldn't stand using it.
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Opinions, opinions, opinions…. I feel the same way about any fixed, non manual lens. No, the retarding lens controls on fixed servo lens cameras like HVX200, DVX100, Z1 and auto lens in the XL series said to be manual focus and zoom don’t count. I’m talking about real manual controls. I can’t stand using a camera without a real manual lens. Rubber-band loosey-goosey "wet cabbage" feel or not.
Now seriously, isn't it like a thief bad mouthing a burglar? The HVX200 also doesn't have a real manual lens. Nitpicking on the Canon for some personal issue sounds really ironic.
As far as an HVX competitor? Naw. 4:2:0 HDV vs. 4:2:2 DVCPRO-HD,
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I read several times about the HVX200 being “actually in reality” a 4:2:0 camera. I don’t recall the reason, since I dropped my interest on the HVX200 long ago when footage, resolution charts, noise issues and other glitches started to surface, but I’m pretty sure I could find it again.

1080/24F vs. 1080/24P, 1080/30F vs. 1080/30P,
Isn’t it more like 540p? 540x540 actually. So, a more correct way to put it would be 800x600 24f vs. 540x540 24p, 800x600 30p vs. 540x540 30p.
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no 720p at all, no variable frame rates,
Now you touched on a real advantage, specially variable frame rates, which is the only real advantage of the HVX200 over its competitors on my book.
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no DVCPRO50,
That’s subjective. Unless you work for a TV station that uses the format, I don’t see a reason to shoot DV50 over 720p. But yes, it does offer you the option so I guess it counts as an advantage.
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no Cinelike-D and Cinelike-V, and back to a tape-based workflow?
Back you mean? Have we ever realistically gone way from it? A HVX200 with 2 small cards that allow you to record a ¼ of a hour costs as much as 2 of these new Canons and the workflow is not quite mature yet. There’s hundreds of people complaining online about the workflow. P2 is the future, not now.


No thanks on that aspect.
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Naturally.
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Between the A1 and the HVX200... I think it's safe to assume, all pixel counts aside, that it is NOT THE CAMERA that's going to have people purchasing the A1.

NCJE is the perfect example. DVX100 owner, knows that the HVX200 is the camera of choice... but the cost to take advantage of such is too great.

Like him, I'd rather rent or borrow than own it, because of these reasons.

Tape-Based Workflow, 4:2:0, HDV, No Variable Frame Rates... throw all the nonsense you want at me. What the bottom line really sounds like to me is:

You can get awesome looking Hi-Def footage for 3999.99 + Tape Media.

Sorry... you can toss all of that tech-spec stuff at myself and as many people as you want.

3999.99 to 5499.99 (and that's being leniant on the HVX's side)... At that price point I'm deaf, my friend.

And the statement you're referring to is HVX's 1080i being 4:2:0 and that was a guestimate. Not factual, I believe.
 
"Actually 4:2:0" and "540p" are FUDs which have been thrown around by HVX detractors who haven't actually used the HVX for some time now.

This cam doesn't compete with the HVX, and I don't think it's supposed to. Will it kill the DVX? Quite possibly. But that's not the same thing.
 
Mediacre said:
I read several times about the HVX200 being “actually in reality” a 4:2:0 camera. I don’t recall the reason, since I dropped my interest on the HVX200 long ago when footage, resolution charts, noise issues and other glitches started to surface, but I’m pretty sure I could find it again.
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How about you give the trolling a rest.

It'd be great if people looked at these cams without getting so emotional. You can't think of these cameras as being the best out of what's available, you can only choose what will be best for you.
 
The President and Chevy Chace are absolutely right. DVXuser is one of the most complete sources of online information for film there is. Countless times I found the answer for difficult issues here and I'm sure I'm was not the only one. This is an amazing place for sharing VERY useful information and it is truly a pity when people have to spoil it all over stuff like this. Live and let live. I really can't undestand this "necesity" to prove that "this is better and this is worst". Jesus, isn't it good enough to have so many choices to chose from to suit different styles, preferences, etc? Must people go through the trouble of going online, log in on to dvxuser just to make sure they "win" which is best? This is not a competition and nobody is going to gain anything here. The only thing I want to gain from being here in the forum is useful information and have a good time talking to people who share the same passion then me. Now that the mood is lighter, lets get this tread on the track and focus on canons' new pupies.
 
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