Canon Unveils New Prosumer HDV Line: XH G1 and XH A1

I don't have any other video gear. Just Nikons!! The only video editing I have is FCE so that will need a upgrade. Run and gun doc work and maybe some type of indie production. Not planning on starting a production company, not much event work either. Maybe alttile.

I just would like to know if not having it could later down the road be a problem.
 
If the A1 street prices at under $3,500, they may have something there. It would be one of the least expensive ways to acquire native 16:9 images, albeit, with its "sort-of-24p-ish" feature. This would make a great "stunt" camera (car mounts, etc.).
 
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Zim said:
I don't have any other video gear. Just Nikons!!
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So you already have something! :D Good stuff indeed!! :thumbsup: Maybe the 35mm adapter route specially if you want it for narrative work.

There, here is my best bet:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=62742

Or try this one mainly if you are going to the relay-lens via with an interchangeable device like XL-H1 actually is:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=626538&postcount=28

The only video editing I have is FCE so that will need a upgrade. Run and gun doc work and maybe some type of indie production. Not planning on starting a production company, not much event work either. Maybe alttile.

I just would like to know if not having it could later down the road be a problem.
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Targeting a $15,000 budget (editing solution included) I would go with the Silicon Imaging Mini-cam setup. Less than that, I would follow a Canon road (higher res --> sharpness, better lowlighting and noiseless features) from a $3,999 basis even if with compressed audio (strictly if with the A1 option).

On the other hand, the improved autofocus system (unique feature) will be a great help for run & gun shooting like doc work and the well-known high definition focusing problem. Above all if you're dealing from an indie production basis (genre one-man show; a real must around these boards).
 
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Emanuel said:
but maybe are you forgetting the Canon's 3 x 1.67mp CCD block?!...
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I'm not forgetting that at all. I just don't care.

It doesn't make that much difference. Seriously. Are you (or is anyone) going to try to say that because the Canon has three times as many pixels, that it's three times sharper? Of course not. It's a little sharper, but only a little. When you're looking at 1/3" CCDs, there's only so much resolution that can be resolved at that chip size. All the 1/3" cameras are in the same basic ballpark, the Canon being the only one that's a bit sharper. And I wouldn't give up the HVX's unique/characteristic footage "look", or its variable frame rates, or its 1080 & 720, or its flexibility, or its P2 workflow, or its DV50 mode, or any of those things, just to be able to say "yeah, but my cam has more pixels."

The only place where the Canon does show a notable res increase is in 1080/60i mode. I don't think I've ever shot anything in 1080/60i. If someone really wants 1080/60i, the Canon is superior resolution, no argument.

Really, the pixel thing is such a non-issue. If it's an issue to someone, then go ahead and get the Canon. But if you want to make footage that looks like what we screened yesterday at the L.A. BootCamp, the HVX does just fine. Ask anyone who was there if they think the HVX's pixel count is inadequate!
 
savethestars said:
I'm not trying to start anything but I seem to remember some of you saying about 3-6 months ago that the HDV format was already dying and would soon be dead. Given this announcement, do you see a different view, and if so, what changed your mind?

Thanks, (considering a new camera purchase and don't want to invest in a format that is hard to edit, or that will soon be "dead," or that the industry doesn't like.)
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Am following this thread with interest, as I, too, am looking for another camera in the near future. Not being a techy, and believing that how it is lit, how it is shot, and the material itself outweighs the number of pixels and other statistical comparisons between cameras...

With that said, it does not seem that the questions above have really been addressed, and I would be very curious and appreciative for thoughts about the HDV format in the contect of this particular camera. The A 1 has most of what I want, but what happens to this product when/if AVC comes out? Will HDV still have legs for a few years? Obviously, Panasonic and Sony will present their new offerings in this continual and ever changing progress dance, but how might that affect the Canon HDV owners? Or, would it not make much difference?

I am trying to learn from these discussions, and much of it is over my head, but, at the same time, trying to understand the basics, and hoping to spend my money on the right camera for me, so thanks for any clarifications or explanations.
Ques from above quote: hard to edit, dead format, industry may not like it?
Thanks, Stuart
 
Good old times Barry!

It was nice read you again...

My best HVX find:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=64147

One of my best Canon's finds:
http://www.starwaypictures.com/twenty-third/index.html

Anyway, I've been missing your posts and I'd like to see you@RED_forum.

Or even better @Silicon Imaging sub-forum. They have been trying with Jarred but it's not easy to get anything in the others' backyard specially when RED is around. Because I'm with the Jim's project, that's my home too. So, it's not a problem to me. But I'd also like to go with Ari & Jason team. IMHO they need more support than they had been with. Unfairly. They have an excellent product and they would need for a support like yours.
 
evenkiehl said:
I would be very curious and appreciative for thoughts about the HDV format in the contect of this particular camera. The A 1 has most of what I want, but what happens to this product when/if AVC comes out? Will HDV still have legs for a few years? Obviously, Panasonic and Sony will present their new offerings in this continual and ever changing progress dance, but how might that affect the Canon HDV owners? Or, would it not make much difference?
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http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=629879&postcount=25
 
HDV vs avc is a good point. These new canon cameras got me very very excited...but if I buy one and a week after that Panasonic or Sony come up with a progressive HD-AVC I would be pissed! But to be honest I have a strong feeling these 2 formats will co-exist for a couple of years. Besides, if you wait for the perfect technology to come up we would still be shooting with HI8 because we wouldn't be sure how long DV was going to last before a new technology showed up. Keeping up with techology is hard. Who knows if in 5 years there's going to be a Ultra-Super-Mega-Hyper-High-Definition and both AVC and Hdv will be dead. Btw, I've heard Sony is coming up with a new format called HVD ;-)
 
rawfa said:
HDV vs avc is a good point. These new canon cameras got me very very excited...but if I buy one and a week after that Panasonic or Sony come up with a progressive HD-AVC I would be pissed! But to be honest I have a strong feeling these 2 formats will co-exist for a couple of years. Besides, if you wait for the perfect technology to come up we would still be shooting with HI8 because we wouldn't be sure how long DV was going to last before a new technology showed up. Keeping up with techology is hard. Who knows if in 5 years there's going to be a Ultra-Super-Mega-Hyper-High-Definition and both AVC and Hd will be dead.
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I was JUST getting ready to post this same exact thing.

If Panasonic releases some AVC-HD camera with variable frame rates and other hoo-haa right after, and I have to go through the process of reselling my A1 I'll be pretty grumpy.

It almost makes me want to stick with the DVX100a and rent hi-def when needed, or rent my friends with HVX200's or H1's.

But, then, renting isn't really an investment. At least if I purchase one I can resell it for maybe fifty-dollars under what I payed for it on ebay like I did with my first Pana camera.

I suppose there are still a pair of months in front of the release dates... here's to hoping that if there are any Panasonic cameras ready to go befor the holidays that they do a press release before the A1 is released.
 
rawfa said:
HDV vs avc is a good point. These new canon cameras got me very very excited...but if I buy one and a week after that Panasonic or Sony come up with a progressive HD-AVC I would be pissed! But to be honest I have a strong feeling these 2 formats will co-exist for a couple of years. Besides, if you wait for the perfect technology to come up we would still be shooting with HI8 because we wouldn't be sure how long DV was going to last before a new technology showed up. Keeping up with techology is hard. Who knows if in 5 years there's going to be a Ultra-Super-Mega-Hyper-High-Definition and both AVC and Hdv will be dead. Btw, I've heard Sony is coming up with a new format called HVD ;-)
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LOL

Eu concordo com você, Rafa/I agree with you rawfa

...but I can't believe those majors would go to lose their market.

Maybe only after RED. Some years later.

Once more, HVX is what it is because they wouldn't want it in any way other than as it was.

Canon is out of this business 'cause they're manufacturing JUST 1/3" camcorders as their own high-end. However, G1/A1 is a surprise but not so much if we'll notice its delay. One year after XL-H1. Just a couple of months after the AVC-HD announcement. Without it, the $6,999/$3,999 offer wouldn't be possible.
 
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Kholi said:
If Panasonic releases some AVC-HD camera with variable frame rates...
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LOL

Although possible, it will never happen now.

And when there will be their launch, it will be lower res than Canon (Pana) or interlaced/fake progressive (Sony) -- that's for sure!
 
Emanuel said:
LOL

Although possible, it will never happen now.

And when there will be their launch, it will be lower res than Canon (Pana) or interlaced/fake progressive (Sony) -- that's for sure!
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Meh, lower-res ... okay. But it sure ain't lower resolution keeping me from shelling out for an HVX.

I think it's almost safe to say that if the HVX's price-tag with at least an 8gig p2 card were oh... between four and five-thousand (3999 to 4999.99)? The majority of this forum would have one, including myself.

Instead, I'm forced to wait until the company I work for shells out the dough, because I'm not paying sixty-five hundred plus (6500.00+) for it, no matter what it does.

Has nothing to do with the resolution, or the p2 media itself, for me. It's all about that dollar amount.

And, I'd wager that the reason the A1 and G1 are garnering so much attention is because of those lovely MSRP's that've been given. A street price from thirty-five to thirty-seven hundred? That only makes the pixel count sound sweeter.
 
Kholi said:
And, I'd wager that the reason the A1 and G1 are garnering so much attention is because of those lovely MSRP's that've been given. A street price from thirty-five to thirty-seven hundred? That only makes the pixel count sound sweeter.
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It is a killer price indeed! Above all if you can buy the most higher res of the 1/3" chip HD cams (a Mini-XLH1 unit) for less than a half of its original price...twelve months later its own native launch.
 
TimurCivan said:
Yea but... wait. youre trandslating HDV 4:2:0 => cineform/DVCcpro/PhototJpeg 422 codec. you cant get that color space back regardless of what "lossless" codec you use. That just soundsl ike taking SD video, stretching it to "hd" and presenting it as HD. the image does not have the information in it. How does that work???

Im seriously asking and not flaming this cause if i can get "better" results, I WILL shoot Canon G1 and rent a HVX for over cranked shots. How does this work? I am looking at this from the standpoint of a DP, keeping my clients best interests in mind, and giving them footage that can be manipulated without problems.
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TimurCivan, I'm talking about capturing the live camera head signal via SDI. This bypasses HDV compression and the image is true full raster uncompressed 4:2:2, not subsampled 4:2:2. I've captured this way numerous times into a G5/KonaLH setup using FCP "capture now" directly from the camera output. I usually capture with the Sheer lossless codec (45 MBs--http://www.bitjazz.com) and then transcode to PhotoJPEG later on to work with smaller, high quality clips (12-16 MBs). This preserves nearly all the spatial and chroma info the camera offers in an easily editable codec. It makes a difference in scenes with extremely challenging motion characteristics and definitely helps to achieve frighteningly good chroma keys. Loads of latitude for cc too.

You may find you won't need the HVX for overcrank unless you need frame rates between 30 and 60fps. I use a Nattress plug-in for FCP (Standards Conversion, Map
Frames) which does an extremely good job of converting 1080i to 720 60p. It will even do a surprisingly good job of making 1080 60p from 1080i in the HQ field to frames mode. You have to see it to understand it, but it definitely achieves good 2.5 slow mo that is very intercuttable with 24F in a 1080 24p timeline. You can also shoot 30F for a slight slow mo when conformed to 24p.

SDI 1080i is actually very flexible if you know how to work with it in post.
 
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evenkiehl said:
The A 1 has most of what I want, but what happens to this product when/if AVC comes out?
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Who cares?!! A good HD image is just that. AVC is still hyper-compression too. And it's long GOP 4:2:0 also...so if you like what you see from H1 imagery (look at disjecta's H1 stuff! http://www.pinelakefilms.com/blog.html) than just shoot!! Why hang around for a technology that is not likely to make much of a difference in your storytelling and most likely to be a diminishing returns prospect from what the A1 offers?

The future is now! Quality HD is here at DVX prices...dig in!

Will HDV still have legs for a few years? Obviously, Panasonic and Sony will present their new offerings in this continual and ever changing progress dance, but how might that affect the Canon HDV owners? Or, would it not make much difference?
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I think the threshold of high quality film-like HD has already been passed some time ago. If you can't get BIG SCREEN theatrical release -worthy images with 24F 1080p (or 720p HD for that matter) than it's certainly not a question of the technology.
 
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Elton said:
I think the threshold of high quality film-like HD has already been passed some time ago. If you can't get BIG SCREEN theatrical release -worthy images with 24F 1080p (or 720p HD for that matter) than it's certainly not a question of the technology.
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Barlow for Vice President.
 
Elton said:
Who cares?!! A good HD image is just that. AVC is still hyper-compression too. And it's long GOP 4:2:0 also...so if you like what you see from H1 imagery (look at disjecta's H1 stuff! http://www.pinelakefilms.com/blog.html) than just shoot!! Why hang around for a technology that is not likely to make much of a difference in your storytelling and most likely to be a diminishing returns prospect from what the A1 offers?

The future is now! Quality HD is here at DVX prices...dig in!



I think the threshold of high quality film-like HD has already been passed some time ago. If you can't get BIG SCREEN theatrical release -worthy images with 24F 1080p (or 720p HD for that matter) than it's certainly not a question of the technology.
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Exactly! These things are to make movies with, not dick measuring contests. I don't give a damn what company offered the XH A1, if it was what it is I'd buy it.

Sometimes I think if Panasonic to made both the HVX and the A1 I think this forum would give it more praise.
 
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