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Canon Sales Continue to Plummet
- Thread starter Ken1212
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https://global.canon/en/ir/results/2019/rslt2019q3e.pdf
3rd Q - operating profits down 44%, net income 43%.
For 9 months, OP down 50%, NI 49%.
3rd Q - operating profits down 44%, net income 43%.
For 9 months, OP down 50%, NI 49%.
Ouch. They are declining in several product segments. On the other hand, the report says that mirrorless camera sales are up due to full frame introduction. So what do they and the others do after full frame plays out; medium format anyone?
The first paragraph is interesting reading of their view of the world economy.
The first paragraph is interesting reading of their view of the world economy.
Their mirrorless sales had nowhere to go but up. Before EOS R and RP, they had nothing in that sector and now RP is marked down to $1,000 and R down to $1,800, which generally means they have to move them regardless of the margins. The original prices were $1,300 and $2,300 respectively, so this is a huge slide. When you think about EOS R being, essentially, a mirrorless 5D MKIV, it is now selling for almost half the price of the 5D line.
As to the Medium Format, it is probably the next step but, with the Japanese market segmentation and all that legacy glass, Canon seems to be pretty firmly entrenched in APS-C and FF. Rumors have them working on a 70-80 MPX FF model to edge Sony, at least, on resolution but that is likely to have a very marginal effect too.
And that's the industry leader. Others are not likely to be doing well either but, at least, Sony and Panasonic are well diversified. Canon and Nikon had a lot more of their eggs in the photo-video basket and that basket is shrinking every day.
M50 is down to $650 (off its original $800 price). So, while it may move a lot of units - it's #6 on the Amazon mirrorless - its overall contribution to the company bottom line is in doubt. M6 MKII looks like an interesting consumer model but it hasn't shipped yet. Plus, both are EF-M and I would think this makes the universal Sony E and Nikon Z mounts a preferred choice on the low-to-medium end.
http://www.cipa.jp/stats/documents/e/dw-201909_e.pdf
CIPA stats were just released. September wasn't that bad but the first three quarters were. And, of course, this says nothing about the total revenues and/or profits. With hardware being discounted everywhere, that's where the greatest damage is taking place.
CIPA stats were just released. September wasn't that bad but the first three quarters were. And, of course, this says nothing about the total revenues and/or profits. With hardware being discounted everywhere, that's where the greatest damage is taking place.
Sony doesn't break down camera sales but their imaging/sensor tech is doing splendidly.
https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/pdf/19q2_sonypre.pdf
https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/pdf/19q2_sonypre.pdf
And to add to the joy (meaning woes) of the photo-video manufacturrrs across the globe (meaning Asia, meaning Japan, meaning Sony HQ), yesterday Xiaomi announced a new phone model (Mi 10) with Samsung's 108 MPX Isocell sensor. Most of the time, it's a quad-Bayer pattern that produces a 27 MPX image, which has more detail than the majority of MFT and APS-C cameras and it does so for 550€.
But, wait, there's more.
The smartphone actually has five cameras in total. A 5 MPX 5x zoom, a 12 MPX 2x zoom, a 2 MPX macro and a 32 MPX selfie. At least, that's how I recall all these specs.
The early reviewers are poopooing the 108 MPX because they feel like it and because none of them has ever held a Fuji 100 MPX medium format camera in their hands.
PS. It does some smartphone-y-baloney stuff as well.
But, wait, there's more.
The smartphone actually has five cameras in total. A 5 MPX 5x zoom, a 12 MPX 2x zoom, a 2 MPX macro and a 32 MPX selfie. At least, that's how I recall all these specs.
The early reviewers are poopooing the 108 MPX because they feel like it and because none of them has ever held a Fuji 100 MPX medium format camera in their hands.
PS. It does some smartphone-y-baloney stuff as well.
Samuel H
Major Contributor
That 108 Mpix sensor is 1/1.33", so, big for a phone, bigger than the sensors in most point-and-shoots a few years ago... but still far from m43 or APS-C. And with huge restrictions for the lens design. I'd be surprised if it could match the detail of my 24 Mpix Sony a6000, but maybe it does. Waiting for some studio pixelpeeping tests (the ones by dpreview are my favorite ones).
In any case: any doubts that smartphones are going to eat from the bottom an ever increasingly big chunk the photography market should be gone by now.
In any case: any doubts that smartphones are going to eat from the bottom an ever increasingly big chunk the photography market should be gone by now.
John Brawley
Well-known member
It's always been this way.
Olympus imaging is a loss leader. Their cameras / imaging division have always more or less broken even however, the very reason Olympus have such a stranglehold on the very profitable medical imaging market is precisely BECAUSE of the camera division's innovations being leveraged across into medical. Imaging is the R&D of medical.
Olympus cameras makes Olympus medical very profitable and has done for many many years.
JB
(Olympus Visionary)
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Small sensors - even an ~ 2/3 is fairly small - allow for mini primes. Their zooms are internal periscopes, although I still maintain that, should someone want to make a high end ILC smartphone, they could easily have small'ish external primes with proper photo mounting rather than the clip-ons that have become fairly popular in the last few years. A user could then store the prime collection in a separate bag. What they do is simply offer a built-in collection of primes because it's cheaper to do the whole photo-video module several times over.
For most smartphone users, a 3-4 camera unit is more than adequate.
PS. The ratios of phone vs. camera sales are hard to figure because, back around 2010, both were going up but, as the smartphones photo-video has gotten better and better, they have definitely destroyed the P&S market* and are now going after MFT and APS-C.
*The Japanese could probably take, at least, 1/3 off their P&S models but that would create a gap between 1/3rd-2/3rd P&S and MFT and, had they brought down MFT, then they'd have to do likewise with APS-C. So they maintain the pricing structure but are resigned to losing the overall sales as the mobile photography is becoming more and more competitive in terms of sheer quality.
FWIW, Olympus has been using Sony sensors - Sony only recently sold its part ownership in the company - and could become quite a beneficiary of Sony's new MFT 47 MPX data collector. Going from 20 to 47 is quite a jump, making the MFT quite competitive in the stills area. Its video may be effected by the crop or line skipping but newer processors seem to eliminate the moire (OLPF's would also help). If it copies Sony's A-line auto focus, it could be a very useful product.
PS. Of course, Olympus, for no commercial reasons whatsoever, will then price it far above Sony's APS-C line.
PS. Of course, Olympus, for no commercial reasons whatsoever, will then price it far above Sony's APS-C line.
https://www.fujifilmholdings.com/en/pdf/investors/finance/materials/ff_2020q2_001.pdf
FujiFilm (page 2) - Imaging Division, sales down 12%, profits down 53%. Even their Instax cameras are taking a dip. GFX100 is doing reasonably well - according to Fuji - but, at $10,000, it's unlikely to be moving a lot of units or contributing to the bottom line.
GFX 100 is a great camera, by the way, but nowadays one can take a 108 megapixel image with a $550 smartphone too.
FujiFilm (page 2) - Imaging Division, sales down 12%, profits down 53%. Even their Instax cameras are taking a dip. GFX100 is doing reasonably well - according to Fuji - but, at $10,000, it's unlikely to be moving a lot of units or contributing to the bottom line.
GFX 100 is a great camera, by the way, but nowadays one can take a 108 megapixel image with a $550 smartphone too.
The difference is that the auto market is more competitive than the photo-video. Let's use your example of sports cars. The entry level for the brand new vehicles is Hyundai Veloster N - 275 hp, 0-60 in about 5.2s, ~ $30,000. These would have been (naturally aspirated) 911 numbers a decade and a half ago. Next step up are Ford Mustang or Chevrolet Camaro. Mustang has a new $35,000 EcoBoost version with 350 ft/lbs of torque that does 0-60 in about 4.5 in the automatic or one can choose Honda Civic R that does so in ~ 4.9s manual. Then you get into Mustang GT at ~ $45,000 (0-60 in low 4's or high 3's, depending on the transmission) or Toyota Supra at ~ $52,000 (0-60 in ~ 3.8s). Or, if you're into drag racing, buy an OEM Roush supercharged Mustang GT for as low as $42,000 that gets you 680hp (Stage 1 tune) and low 3's. And so on and so forth.
This type of a gradual performance improvement according to the price is a norm in the smartphone industry too, with the Chinese (Huawei, Xiaomi, Oppo) offering quite a bit more bang for the buck than iPhone. The photo-video Big 4/5/6, on the other hand, will cripple some features on their products, leaving consumer with a dubious list of options. For example, the expected A7IV will have 5K/6K readout but only in 8-bit. So, enable 10-bit and that's your race car for a smidgen of an ARRI Amira.
And, when you get these price gaps and a relatively poor return with a greater spending, you seek the alternatives.
PS. I wrote a while ago that an ILC smartphone would take over a high end photo business, including even some studio work. The clip-on lenses offer some improvement but having an ability to mount decent mini-primes onto a 108 MPX sensor would produce an image of sufficient quality for most applications not involving the high end glossy mag level production.
PPS. Thomas Magnum's 1978 Ferrari 308 did 0-60 in ~ 7.4s. But it cost about $60,000 or five times the GDP/capita. The new Veloster N is significantly faster and runs only 1/2 of the GDP/capita. Granted, it's no modern Ferrari but it shows how far the automotive technology has advanced over forty years. The electronics/computer tech has advanced much further in the same time frame, so while Xiaomi Mi10 is definitely no FujiFilm GFX100 and will never be as good as a medium format pro model - for the same reason that Veloster N isn't Ferrari California - this may no longer matter much within 2-3 years. The new Corvette C8 does 0-60 in under 3s and is priced at around $80,000 in a ready-to-rock-n-roll form. And 3s requires pro level driving. Which makes $100,000+ supercars void of the real functional value. And the same thing is happening to cameras too.
https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/olympus-may-cut-jobs-in-aggressive-push-to-increase-margins-1.1349997
Olympus, "We're not selling our camera business ... unless you make us an offer we can't refuse. And, by the way, we're not hiring. Au contraire ..."
Olympus, "We're not selling our camera business ... unless you make us an offer we can't refuse. And, by the way, we're not hiring. Au contraire ..."