Canon Sales Continue to Plummet

OnLeaks leaked (the presumably accurate) Samsung Galaxy S11 specs. The phone will probably be announced in February.

Five cameras (maybe the 6th ToF), maybe 8K, likely 5x optical zoom, the same 108 MPX Quad Bayer sensor as in Xiaomi Mi10. One might get curious whether Samsung sold Xiaomi its sensor in exchange for Xiaomi's periscope zoom, with Xiaomi agreeing to stay in its middle class of the range while S11 will be offered as a top end version. Samsung and Xiaomi combine for about a third of all smartphones sold globally at ~ 23% and 10% respectively.
 
puredrifting said:
As someone who owns the C200 and a hybrid Fujifim XT-3, I don't see the two products converging for me in the foreseeable future. Until they make a hybrid with built-in NDs, RAW, real TC i/o and integrated mini XLRs, my hybrid will always be my B-camera. The XT-3 makes great looking images but it is a PITA to shoot
handheld or even on tripod compared to my C200. Even if hybrids do eventually integrate all of these features, the ergonomics are still a lot more of a compromise for many kinds of shooting scenarios. I have no problem owning and using a real video camera and a hybrid camera, it's nice to have different tools for different
shoots.
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This is my point in a nutshell. The two worlds (hybrid and cinema) are different. They will never be the same purchase for most. Drifting owns a Canon C200 and a Fuji hybrid. One would think a Canon hybrid would fit nicely in that kit for pros. Now why doesn't Canon want to get that hybrid sale? Because tech has moved on so much, the hybrid needs to be close on specs to be considered as they are most useful if they compliment each other rather than only using one as secondary, lesser footage. That not saying the hybrid needs to/can equal the cinema camera, but not be a weak side attempt with 8 bit codecs and crops that phones can match.
 
A lot of the features of a pro camera can be matched by any modern data cable and/or WiFi/Bluetooth. Others can be performed by an external control panel, tethered or wireless. The physical shape/layout of the camera can likewise reflect a video shooter's need. And the reason it isn't done is not because the engineers in Japan are incapable of doing that. The pro market is the last tangible source of profits for the Big 4/5/6 and the US pro gear owners have very few options unless EZ Cam, Kinefinity and, to some extent, BMD take steps to compete.*

*The Chinese companies need to have a US service presence, while BMD would need an $8.000-$10,000 camera without any reliability issues. EZ Cam and BMD are very popular at the more affordable level but they do have to fight off the emerging videocentric hybrids such as Z6 and S1,
 
DLD said:
A lot of the features of a pro camera can be matched by any modern data cable and/or WiFi/Bluetooth. Others can be performed by an external control panel, tethered or wireless. The physical shape/layout of the camera can likewise reflect a video shooter's need. And the reason it isn't done is not because the engineers in Japan are incapable of doing that. The pro market is the last tangible source of profits for the Big 4/5/6 and the US pro gear owners have very few options unless EZ Cam, Kinefinity and, to some extent, BMD take steps to compete.*

*The Chinese companies need to have a US service presence, while BMD would need an $8.000-$10,000 camera without any reliability issues. EZ Cam and BMD are very popular at the more affordable level but they do have to fight off the emerging videocentric hybrids such as Z6 and S1,
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I'm on a couple of Zcam FB groups too. Not saying the cams are bad, they aren't but they are having a lot of normal growing pain issues.
Personally I wouldn't touch one for at least a year, possibly two, a lot of these issues would be a nightmare in a professional environment.

I've also noticed ZCam owners seem to have an inferiority complex or low self esteem, any constructive criticisms of the camera, it's performance
or questioning why there is so little good looking, impressive ZCam footage in existence are met with downright hostility. It's kind of weird.
 
I’ve had a ZCam E2 for a while now. It definitely has its quirks, but it’s been a pretty solid performer for me so far.

It’s mostly a b cam to my C200 and a high framerate option for when I need slow mo.

It’s well worth what it costs IMO.
 
jbregar said:
I’ve had a ZCam E2 for a while now. It definitely has its quirks, but it’s been a pretty solid performer for me so far.

It’s mostly a b cam to my C200 and a high framerate option for when I need slow mo.

It’s well worth what it costs IMO.
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So which footage from it did you see that convinced you it was worth parting with your hard money? I haven't seen any footage yet that looked REALLY good. I've seen a few that look decent but nothing great.
With as many owners as their are (they've sold a lot of E2s), I am just surprised nobody is turning out some head turning work with them. Or if they are, they aren't posting it.
Especially looking forward to seeing what an experienced pro DP can get out of the new S35 models, they would be more tempting to me than the M43 E2 for not that much more.
 
I’ll be honest, I bought it mostly because I needed 120fps slow mo for a specific project and the client paid for it almost entirely on that one job. Philip Bloom’s slow mo video was what pushed me over the edge.

I’ll agree there’s not a ton of great footage out there... which made me wary, but after owning it for several months, it’s a valuable addition to my kit.

I was interested in the larger sensors too, but none of them offer anywhere near the HFR capability of the m43 cam. My E2 has a near permanently mounted SpeedBooster XL on it, so it actually looks bigger than S35 but not quite as big as FF. I think the effective crop is around 1.2X.

Since buying it, it’s been pretty handy as a high quality mounted cam, on the Ronin S, etc.... in addition to having something that can shoot over 60fps in 4K.
 
The zcams look to have more latitude than BM. Bm has the orange/cyan colour palette built in.

After using both the BM4K and the zcam M43, i ended up enjoying the Black magic a little more for personal use.

The dual iso noise performance won me over, because it allowed me to use DZO T3 zoom lenses without worrying about shooting when things go dark. The BMP4K and a pair of DZO zooms is one of the most underrated packages in the game right now.

The Zcam would be good for specific projects, but might require some familiarity with the camera to get the best image. Whereas i’d take the BMP4K and go shoot a documentary. M43 and zoom lenses equals compact zoom nirvana.
 
The thing that made the ZCam a lot more usable for me was using the PortKeys BM5 monitor. The onscreen controls make things simpler.

Though recently I’ve been running mine with an iPod Touch and the ZCam app... makes settings even more intuitive.
 
jbregar said:
The thing that made the ZCam a lot more usable for me was using the PortKeys BM5 monitor. The onscreen controls make things simpler.

Though recently I’ve been running mine with an iPod Touch and the ZCam app... makes settings even more intuitive.
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Very good to know.

The zcams are already great bang for buck. Seemed to struggle in lower lighting conditions without a fast lens. So, it ends up feeling like a camera that shines more in an intentional production than a slinging around. perhaps why i prefer the bmp4K at the end of the day. Zcam isn’t going anywhere. I talked with the boss briefly. They have already been in business a long time, and their recent cine line has seemed to take the value segment by the gongjidan.
 
jbregar said:
I’ll be honest, I bought it mostly because I needed 120fps slow mo for a specific project and the client paid for it almost entirely on that one job. Philip Bloom’s slow mo video was what pushed me over the edge.

I’ll agree there’s not a ton of great footage out there... which made me wary, but after owning it for several months, it’s a valuable addition to my kit.

I was interested in the larger sensors too, but none of them offer anywhere near the HFR capability of the m43 cam. My E2 has a near permanently mounted SpeedBooster XL on it, so it actually looks bigger than S35 but not quite as big as FF. I think the effective crop is around 1.2X.

Since buying it, it’s been pretty handy as a high quality mounted cam, on the Ronin S, etc.... in addition to having something that can shoot over 60fps in 4K.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your experience, that makes sense. If you shoot something that you think looks amazing with it, please post it.
 
James0b57 said:
Very good to know.

The zcams are already great bang for buck. Seemed to struggle in lower lighting conditions without a fast lens. So, it ends up feeling like a camera that shines more in an intentional production than a slinging around. perhaps why i prefer the bmp4K at the end of the day. Zcam isn’t going anywhere. I talked with the boss briefly. They have already been in business a long time, and their recent cine line has seemed to take the value segment by the gongjidan.
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The Z-Cam is definitely more on the "sensor in a box" side of the equation than the BMPCC4K. All these people rigging them up with side handles and such for handheld shooting I feel are kinda missing the point, but whatever floats the boat.

The m43 E2's low light straight out of camera is a little grainy, but I find it cleans up really well with Neat Video, so I haven't been overly handicapped by that. The image when exposed correctly is really pleasing to me and mixes quite well with a C200 A-cam with only minor color pushing.

In the end, I was looking to pick up a third camera (first two are C200 and 5D Mark IV) that was video-centered and the Z-Cam's 120fps 4K won me over. I tried the Fuji X-T3, but the stills AF really frustrated me and it meant another lens mount, so I returned it. I played with a BMPCC4K extensively (a friend has one and loaned it to me for about a month)... it's a great little camera and I toyed with the idea of returning the Z-Cam for the BMPCC6K, but in the end the Z-Cam fills a niche in my kit that I don't have well-covered (small camera, good high frame rate), so I kept the Z-Cam.

I also do a few live events every year and I'm experimenting with the Z-Cam's network-based video streaming and control. I can actually just pull the Z-Cam feed into OBS over the network, it'll be even better when Z-Cam finally releases their NDI bridge for Mac. Coupled with a nice servo zoom and the Super16 mode, that might make it worth picking up a second for those shoots. We'll see.

I had a decently-long chat with Kinson (CEO of Z-Cam) at NAB last year. They seem very very open to suggestions. I'm looking forward to seeing them again in 2020, they're a good group of people who seem to legitimately want to put out killer bang-for-the-buck cameras.
 
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jbregar said:
The Z-Cam is definitely more on the "sensor in a box" side of the equation than the BMPCC4K. All these people rigging them up with side handles and such for handheld shooting I feel are kinda missing the point, but whatever floats the boat.

The m43 E2's low light straight out of camera is a little grainy, but I find it cleans up really well with Neat Video, so I haven't been overly handicapped by that. The image when exposed correctly is really pleasing to me and mixes quite well with a C200 A-cam with only minor color pushing.

In the end, I was looking to pick up a third camera (first two are C200 and 5D Mark IV) that was video-centered and the Z-Cam's 120fps 4K won me over. I tried the Fuji X-T3, but the stills AF really frustrated me and it meant another lens mount, so I returned it. I played with a BMPCC4K extensively (a friend has one and loaned it to me for about a month)... it's a great little camera and I toyed with the idea of returning the Z-Cam for the BMPCC6K, but in the end the Z-Cam fills a niche in my kit that I don't have well-covered (small camera, good high frame rate), so I kept the Z-Cam.

I also do a few live events every year and I'm experimenting with the Z-Cam's network-based video streaming and control. I can actually just pull the Z-Cam feed into OBS over the network, it'll be even better when Z-Cam finally releases their NDI bridge for Mac. Coupled with a nice servo zoom and the Super16 mode, that might make it worth picking up a second for those shoots. We'll see.

I had a decently-long chat with Kinson (CEO of Z-Cam) at NAB last year. They seem very very open to suggestions. I'm looking forward to seeing them again in 2020, they're a good group of people who seem to legitimately want to put out killer bang-for-the-buck cameras.
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Thanks for the feedback and good to hear that it can be matched with the C200 fairly easily. I know what you are saying, I really like the XT-3, I just edited a new corporate reel with an interview shot with the C200 as A cam and the XT-3 as B cam on the motion control slider and I ended up using the XT-3 shot simply because of the movement. The two weren't miles off in color but the XT-3 has more sharpness, detail and more saturated colors than the CRL even when I push the CRL a long way. I'm not a good colorist and dream of the day when one or more of the editing programs can use Ai and just do color matching without the pain we go through now. It's shouldn't be that difficult for computing power to match color.
 
I know... it seems like color matching (at least to a decent baseline) should be relatively simply AI-wise, but I know "Color Match" in Final Cut Pro X never works right for me at all and the resulting grades end up looking further apart than they started.
 
puredrifting said:
Thanks for the feedback and good to hear that it can be matched with the C200 fairly easily. I know what you are saying, I really like the XT-3, I just edited a new corporate reel with an interview shot with the C200 as A cam and the XT-3 as B cam on the motion control slider and I ended up using the XT-3 shot simply because of the movement. The two weren't miles off in color but the XT-3 has more sharpness, detail and more saturated colors than the CRL even when I push the CRL a long way. I'm not a good colorist and dream of the day when one or more of the editing programs can use Ai and just do color matching without the pain we go through now. It's shouldn't be that difficult for computing power to match color.
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How do you sharpen CRL for not having enough?

There is instant colour matching in Premiere via reference frame.

Btw, which instance do you guys prefere? A, B or C? Please write why.

 
I do not think the hue is changing. The different contrast level is affecting the look. As the blacks crush the bush loses some of the lighter tones. As far minding the hues, I have no perspective if the bushes look that way in real life or not. I do see the signature yellow/reddish looking in the bushes but if you do not like the color, bend it or set it up in the camera to be different.
 
So, to sort of get it back to the thread title.

BCN is a Japanese industry site that tracks the Japanese photo-video sales. Apparently, over there, full frame (both mirrorless and the DSLR) comprises only 10% of units sold and Sony now is the leader in full frame (but they're all tanking).
 
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