Canon Sales Continue to Plummet

Since Canon dumped their printers into the same division as cameras, one can't tell much about either without further breakdown. Their overall 51.2% drop has many contributing factors.

But, let's speculate a little. Their medical and office products are less likely to be on the down cycle technologically - in fact, medical in general is trending up - and presumably only suffering from the negative business environment. Which likely means that their photo-video business is even worse off than other divisions. Which is why they chose to lump photo-video into the same pile with everything else.

Investment firms and the industry analysts should have more to say, as they get a far more detailed summary.
 
Since Canon dumped their printers into the same division as cameras, one can't tell much about either without further breakdown. Their overall 51.2% drop has many contributing factors.

But, let's speculate a little. Their medical and office products are less likely to be on the down cycle technologically - in fact, medical in general is trending up - and presumably only suffering from the negative business environment. Which likely means that their photo-video business is even worse off than other divisions. Which is why they chose to lump photo-video into the same pile with everything else.

Investment firms and the industry analysts should have more to say, as they get a far more detailed summary.

Chairman & Ceo Fujio Mitarai "Although the business environment surrounding the Canon Group remains fluid, we will endeavor to improve our business results by further improving the competitiveness "

The 90D seems to only have 30p in 4k, based on the leaked canon video. When he mentions competitiveness, he doesn't seem to be referring to their camera division! The 90D specs should have been released 3 years ago with the 80D.
 
Now that Canon and Nikon have released their mirrorless cameras, even most fanboys are seeing that mirrors are on their way out and DSLRs have their days numbered. And Canon has a problem in their mirrorless lineup: they use EF-M mount for their APS-C models, and RF mount for their FF models. EF-M is so niche that third parties don't even make lenses for it (Sigma just announced it will start... soon...). So, the RF can be great for a lot of people, but there's no path going there, you have to start with the $2k full frame model and either buy super-expensive lenses or adapt big and heavy DSLR lenses. To be fair, Panasonic has exactly the same issue, but without the capability to adapt same-brand DSLR lenses, and Nikon doesn't even make APS-C or m43 mirrorless cameras. But Sony has been playing the mirrorless game for a long time now, and offers a much more appealing path to new users.

The B&H best-seller mirrorless camera list right now is: a7R IV, a7 III, a6400, Z6 with lens, Z6 body only, Z6 refurbished, a7 II, a7R III, GX85... and then Canon R. You know you're doing bad when you're losing to the Z6 in such a spectacular way.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Mirrorless-System-Cameras/ci/16158/N/4288586281
 
Canon 90D has been announced. $1199 USD

32.5MP, UHD4k 30p, FHD 120p with DPAF.
Still 10fps and 45point cross type AF.
Capable camera and will sell very well for photographers. I have an 80D as backup but don't shoot much video with it.
 
Nikon supposedly has an APS-C Z5 on its way. A universal Z-mount, copying Sony's FE approach.

A deluge of new cameras, each crippled in its own distinctive way, vs the new wave of the periscope zoom smartphones which incorporate every trick and even have much higher resolution on top of everything.

This doesn't look too good for Canon's future.
 
Nikon supposedly has an APS-C Z5 on its way. A universal Z-mount, copying Sony's FE approach.

A deluge of new cameras, each crippled in its own distinctive way, vs the new wave of the periscope zoom smartphones which incorporate every trick and even have much higher resolution on top of everything.

This doesn't look too good for Canon's future.

It only took canokoni 10years to get 1080 10bit video in slr form. Hopefully the’ll make something worth owning before they go out of business.
 
It only took canokoni 10years to get 1080 10bit video in slr form. Hopefully the’ll make something worth owning before they go out of business.
Sony's staying, as they're a major sensor OEM, which is why they have to cripple their own cameras along the way. The Tower Jazz poobah said something along these lines recently, "How can you compete with Sony if you keep buying their sensors?" (Of course, Tower Jazz designs sensors themselves)

Panasonic is too diversified to care much.

Canon and Nikon are in deep doo-doo.
 
Starting to sound like intel vs intel, when talking sensors these days.

If the other manufacturers can get over the 15stops DR slump, then they can just compete on ergonomics and lenses. ....like they used to.
 
None of this is good for us. If sales decline, so does innovation and competition. Do you want to make movies with an iphone?
 
None of this is good for us. If sales decline, so does innovation and competition. Do you want to make movies with an iphone?

If camera development stopped today, and we never saw a single further development in specs or image quality - it would not matter in the slightest. There’s nothing we need that the current crop of cameras don’t already deliver.

Near-noiseless 6k digital looks as good (arguably better) than 15-perf IMAX... we don’t need better than that.

“Good enough” will see digital camera sales plummet, for good reason - as people already have all they need, most will only need to update once their current cameras break down.

Canikon won’t be going anywhere, they’ll simply scale back their production levels, and development cycles to match.
 
If camera development stopped today, and we never saw a single further development in specs or image quality - it would not matter in the slightest. There’s nothing we need that the current crop of cameras don’t already deliver.
I disagree. The expectations of viewers will continue to rise, and if cameras stopped meeting those rising expectations, viewers would stop viewing content. There would be a collapse of the video production industry, followed by a huge increase in book reading, photoless magazine and newspaper consumption, as well as a drastic increase in other non-media consuming activities such as hiking, boating, rock climbing, etc.
 
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I disagree. The expectations of viewers will continue to rise, and if cameras stopped meeting those rising expectations, viewers would stop viewing content. There would be a collapse of the video production industry, followed by a huge increase in book reading, photoless magazine and newspaper consumption, as well as a drastic increase in other non-media consuming activities such as hiking, boating, rock climbing, etc.
...maybe they should stop improving cameras.
 
There would be a collapse of the video production industry, followed by a huge increase in book reading, photoless magazine and newspaper consumption, as well as a drastic increase in other non-media consuming activities such as hiking, boating, rock climbing, etc.

So I should stay ahead of the curve and put all my savings into pulp and paper. Gotcha. Thanks for the investment tip... :2vrolijk_08:
 
It's in our nature to improve, explore and expand our universe and boldly go toward new frontiers. Every time I get a new camera I explorer possibilities a little further and in the process improve my skills.
 
:nads:nice!

Also, looks like it is Panasonics turn.
A few years ago, a Canon exec said, "From now on, we'll be making niche cameras". At the time it was understood as a "videocentric" model at a given price point, then a "photocentric" at the same price point, with a similar pattern from the low to the high tier.

The reality is that all the niches - let's assume there is about a dozen of them from the entry level P&S and bridge to the medium pro of the FS-7/C300 MKII category, not counting the fixed lens camcorders - is occupied by a different company with only a minor overlap between them. That is a prima facie evidence in the entire industry. Canon crops and 30p's on everyone. Sony is 8-bitten. Panasonic doesn't have an APS-C camera and Fuji only has APS-C cameras. And Medium Format. With the sensor made by Sony. Which doesn't have a Medium Format camera of its own. Nikon has neither the Medium Format nor a true video camera while Olympus is relegated to the MFT size period. A free market would have every one of these niches, with heavy overlap, filled by every manufacturer. With full sensor readout, 10-bit, HEVC, pixel shifting, Quad Bayer, AI AF and so on and a smartphone type refresh cycle of half a year per model.

In other words, there is no one's turn per se. It's everyone taking their turns at bat where they are given a relatively free reign.

Side note, Canon Rumors has a wondering article by the site's proprietor about 90D only having 4K 30P video while omitting 24P. Most of the replies are in the "Canon knows best. Who am I to judge them" category.
 
A few years ago, a Canon exec said, "From now on, we'll be making niche cameras". At the time it was understood as a "videocentric" model at a given price point, then a "photocentric" at the same price point, with a similar pattern from the low to the high tier.

The reality is that all the niches - let's assume there is about a dozen of them from the entry level P&S and bridge to the medium pro of the FS-7/C300 MKII category, not counting the fixed lens camcorders - is occupied by a different company with only a minor overlap between them. That is a prima facie evidence in the entire industry. Canon crops and 30p's on everyone. Sony is 8-bitten. Panasonic doesn't have an APS-C camera and Fuji only has APS-C cameras. And Medium Format. With the sensor made by Sony. Which doesn't have a Medium Format camera of its own. Nikon has neither the Medium Format nor a true video camera while Olympus is relegated to the MFT size period. A free market would have every one of these niches, with heavy overlap, filled by every manufacturer. With full sensor readout, 10-bit, HEVC, pixel shifting, Quad Bayer, AI AF and so on and a smartphone type refresh cycle of half a year per model.

In other words, there is no one's turn per se. It's everyone taking their turns at bat where they are given a relatively free reign.

Side note, Canon Rumors has a wondering article by the site's proprietor about 90D only having 4K 30P video while omitting 24P. Most of the replies are in the "Canon knows best. Who am I to judge them" category.

That makes a lot of sense.


And brand loyalty is pretty amazing.
 
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