Canon R5 Announced with 8k

Dont open your wallets just yet -

"I have been told by a pretty reliable source that Canon will announce another RF mount camera in 2020. What exactly the camera is, I was not privy to at this time.

I do not believe it’s an EOS R system camera, but an RF mount video camera."

https://www.canonrumors.com/there-i...campaign=Feed:+canonrumors/rss+(Canon+Rumors)

Could be interesting if it's an R5 with a fan. I don't personally need such high-end stills performance.

They claim it'll be announced by the beginning of September
 
RF mount was announced on September, 5th, 2018. Two years have gone by and they have not produced a single video camera with that mount. At some point, this empty streak will end.

But I don't think it will be R5 in a C300 body. The odds are with C100 MKIII, which would be ~ 4K with AF, FF, 120p, HEVC, dual SD slot for about $4,000. All the other slots are taken, with C200 being the oldest survivor and subject to a C100 MKIII overlap.

Otherwise, it's unlikely Canon will want to step on the toes of two new cameras in C300MKIII and C500 MKII. And something in the $25,000-$30,000 class of C700 would have to be 8K with lenses in the T2.8 category. And AF.
 
I love DLD's market analyses.

Regardless of what it is, a mirrorless body with IBIS is probably best for my gimbal. I don't really need XLRs on it or even really ND.

And if the R5 can shoot RAW and 8K whilst the C100iii can't, that is icing on the cake. But as always - I await the shootouts
 
One thing we should keep in mind when evaluating these YouTube videos for RS etcetera is that they dont usually mention what processing they use. Only 8K and 4KHQ may have rolling shutter problems. Peter McKinnon can brag that he filmed a whole video without overheating, but that's meaningless if it was shot in pixel-binned mode. I just looked back and he doesn't describe his shooting settings anywhere
 
NorBro said:
This guy is filming in 8K at the time below and wobbling the camera on purpose.

https://youtu.be/-mgy41Lazl0?t=376
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Ok that RS looks good enough. Better than what I've seen from the R6.

I think I could use this camera pretty broadly. Last thing I'm curious about is 4k60 overheating in practice.

I bet the Sony will have more DR. These colors and skin tones look great though. What a time to be alive
 
ahalpert said:
I love DLD's market analyses...
Click to expand...

Adding just a tiny bit of conspiracy to the mix - R5 shuts down because C100MKIII won't.

That's a low probability conspiracy since Canon did immediately scramble to offer a heavily compressed codec that extends the 8K time.

But they have not yet offered a 6K crop or bin. And C100 MKIII (or whatever its name might be) might have it in a full sensor readout.
 
DLD said:
Canon did immediately scramble to offer a heavily compressed codec that extends the 8K time.
Click to expand...

Where did you read that? I know they're coming out with lower bitrate options. But I haven't read anything about that extending the overheating time. And considering the fact that the RAW and processed 8K recording modes both have the same overheating time limit, I bet that the sensor readout and processing generates most of the heat and not writing to the card...
 
The low bit rate/ Long GOP will just toss out a lot of the data and help make processing less intensive for the CPU/Digic Whatever. At the end, the sequence will be to read the full sensor first, then toss out the data rather than to bin lines first, then process whatever is left over. Unlike Z6, this makes more sense in terms of the eventual quality, as proven by Canon's implementation of the 8-bit MP4 on C200.

But, without a center crop 6K, Canon still holds most the cards with regards to the future releases.

PS. Depending on the shut-down programming, R5 may see a ton of returns. And the programming is easy to change. 90F or 105F? Who knows what "overheating" means? But, let's say, someone can't even keep it going for 15 minutes in the California sun, returns it and writes a negative review. And then someone else sues on the ground that the camera shut down in 12 minutes and not 30. Not exactly what a slumping industry needs.
 
DLD said:
PS. Depending on the shut-down programming, R5 may see a ton of returns. And the programming is easy to change. 90F or 105F? Who knows what "overheating" means? But, let's say, someone can't even keep it going for 15 minutes in the California sun, returns it and writes a negative review. And then someone else sues on the ground that the camera shut down in 12 minutes and not 30. Not exactly what a slumping industry needs.
Click to expand...

That's probably why they've been so upfront about the issues. Makes it hard to sue them!

Northrup's testing of the XT4 overheating was something like 21min inside vs 13min outside (not sure of the respective temperatures).

I agree that if a lot of hobbyists buy it who want to take 8K of their kids at Disneyworld...they will not be happy customers. Paid shooters and photogs will know what they're getting into. I see it at a 4K pixel-binned camera with boost modes

Center-crop 6K - yeah. I'd really like that and 4K crops RAW and 2.4:1 modes with faster FPS and basically everything else you can get from RED/BM/ZCAM. But this is Canon - it ain't gonna happen. Not even on their cinema bodies
 
If there is a rumor of another camera, the R5H sounds plausible to me. Panasonic waited a bit then brought out the heavyweight contender that was designed more for video. This has a perfect setup with the normal R5 cameras overheating.

I still stand by my view from months ago that Canon has chosen to go 'all in' on their hybrid presence. It is the only category left in their line that is not flushed out. Do they really need a C200 MKII? Who is left out there to buy a C-series camera that does not have one already? Their behavior with the R-series shows me that this is their last shot at instilling the RF mount before the photography industry loses a lot of its umph. Miss this opportunity and the RF line will never be what the EF line is. And they want/need to sell lenses.
 
DLD said:
...And something in the $25,000-$30,000 class of C700 would have to be 8K with lenses in the T2.8 category. And AF.
Click to expand...

I would be surprised if Canon tries to make a cinema flagship again. The C700/FF failed so badly in the marketplace and didn't become a halo product.
Thinking in Japanese, trying to hit that ball again and missing would be the ultimate loss of face and humiliation. It's not like the high end cinema market is bereft of good choices.
 
ahalpert said:
... Center-crop 6K - yeah. I'd really like that and 4K crops RAW and 2.4:1 modes with faster FPS and basically everything else you can get from RED/BM/ZCAM. But this is Canon - it ain't gonna happen. Not even on their cinema bodies
Click to expand...

8K is 33.2 MPX. 6K would be ~ 21 MPX in 2.39 and ~ 18.6 in 1.78. In both cases, it's less than 1/2 off. EOS R 8.8 4K center crop was a lot worse.

Plus, one could do a hybrid line-skip too, more at the perimeter, less at the very center.

Bassman2003 said:
If there is a rumor of another camera, the R5H sounds plausible to me. Panasonic waited a bit then brought out the heavyweight contender that was designed more for video. This has a perfect setup with the normal R5 cameras overheating.

I still stand by my view from months ago that Canon has chosen to go 'all in' on their hybrid presence. It is the only category left in their line that is not flushed out. Do they really need a C200 MKII? Who is left out there to buy a C-series camera that does not have one already? Their behavior with the R-series shows me that this is their last shot at instilling the RF mount before the photography industry loses a lot of its umph. Miss this opportunity and the RF line will never be what the EF line is. And they want/need to sell lenses.
Click to expand...

Canon does have a video R series - R6. It fits the slot in between EOS R and R5. Rumors of a stills style release had them thinking of a ultra high MPX (70-75) count model. Something to take on A7RIV.

As to C200 replacement - full frame, 6K, HEVC 10-bit, CRL, IBIS, DPAF, CFexpress for $4,000-$6,000 should do the trick.
 
I agree, the high MPX camera is probably coming as well. The R6 does do video but I would not say it is equal to an S1H type of product. But Canon probably does not want to produce a flagship super video model since they have a flagship 1D line for stills. Panasonic does not. So maybe I am reading too much into it.
 
puredrifting said:
I would be surprised if Canon tries to make a cinema flagship again. The C700/FF failed so badly in the marketplace and didn't become a halo product. Thinking in Japanese, trying to hit that ball again and missing would be the ultimate loss of face and humiliation. It's not like the high end cinema market is bereft of good choices.
Click to expand...

Every Japanese company makes a race car. Not because anyone cares much about racing but because it allows them to test new technologies before they make their way into the consumer level product. Sort of like C500 MKII is really a C700 in a different body.

And C700FF with the Codex recorder was ~ $50,000 anyway. Make something below $30,000 and, depending on the specs/performance, it might prove to be more palatable. 8K without the overheating. A novel approach.

Bassman2003 said:
I agree, the high MPX camera is probably coming as well. The R6 does do video but I would not say it is equal to an S1H type of product...
Click to expand...
It's not. Because that would be competition and that is strictly prohibited by the company rules.
 
DLD said:
Every Japanese company makes a race car. Not because anyone cares much about racing but because it allows them to test new technologies before they make their way into the consumer level product. Sort of like C500 MKII is really a C700 in a different body.

And C700FF with the Codex recorder was ~ $50,000 anyway. Make something below $30,000 and, depending on the specs/performance, it might prove to be more palatable. 8K without the overheating. A novel approach.

It's not. Because that would be competition and that is strictly prohibited by the company rules.
Click to expand...

I agree but BMD is disrupting the market pretty well with the new 12k at $10k camera. Then again, I don't see high end production migrating to the BMD camera either. Just trying to think where they would price and slot
in a camera above the C500 MKII? I think politically, they would HAVE to make sure that camera was considered a success. If they went out of the box and brought in actual Hollywood working DPs to collaborate and help
to design the camera and made it actually better than other $28k cameras, it could be a hit. We all know Canon has the design and engineering as well as manufacturing capability make a viable Venice/RED/Arri contender
but will their political and cultural structure prevent them from doing so?

Very interesting market we have now with lots of companies doing new and somewhat daring things.
 
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