C500: Canon C700 Announced.

There are a few features the C700 has that the F55 announced in 2012 doesn't have like the Codex and what seems to be an incredible viewfinder. But many of the firmware functions of the F55 didn't ship for a very long time so maybe it's a tie... F55 owners would know better than I. The F55 shipped incomplete, maybe the C700 ships with 90%+ enabled.

Should the heading of this post be ~IBC 2012 ships in 2016!

Internal ProRes is a plus. It's just IMHO the C700 misses the mark. Who am I to say? Well I was a cameraman for 25 years, owned over $300K in gear over the years and my work has aired on most major networks in the world. Speaking from my age and experience (which is way too old)... one might say the C700 will be about as successful as the full size Varicam which is way overpriced for owner/ operators. Panasonic missed the mark and the proof is the introduction of the Varicam LT.

I did make a mistake early this morning converting Euros to dollars. My bad. For 2K more the Global shutter is probably a good way to go but I am disappointed the OU-700 panel is an option.

I really wonder about Canon. They are clearly driven by marketing tactics. Might be some arrogance over the success of the 5DIII and the C300, which I owned and am very impressed with. This is one camera where you really have to work with it to understand it's greatness.

On the plus side Canon's contribution to Cinema glass is outstanding. They are really making the right moves and we are all the better for it.

We'll see what happens at NAB 2017. I'll bet a bagel (my treat!) the C700 is not a hot seller.
 
I can't afford it yet... lol.. but not only does it look like they kinda stuck a C100 to 500 into an F55, not knocking it but that's what it looks like to me...

And it seems to be going the way of the F55 slow mo frame rates in March... it looks like only 60p is ready now if you buy the external recorder and with that added onto the back and the battery it does seem like an F55 again... but like a friend said... he's always liked the Canon color...

But again at the price point they're asking and if I could afford it... I'd still might go with an Amira.... love the Arri look.. still the most filmmatic to me... just my .02 opinion...

Myself included... I think that some people kept seeing Canon as this company that would turn out the holy grail of cinema cameras for the little guy... again just my opinion...
 
abreu-canedo said:
I suppose it's important to keep in mind that when someone says a camera is over-priced, or under-specced, they can only mean "for them". It is their opinion. And sure, you can compare what a camera offers and the price it offers it for, to other cameras. Again, these comparisons are also infused with varying amounts of subjectivity, preferences and opinions. So no need to argue about whether someone is wrong or whatever else.

Also, it may be fun to speculate about how well it will do in the market, or what effect it may have on the industry, but let's keep it in the spirit of fun.

It's a new camera released by Canon. They don't owe anything to anyone. If you like it you like it. If you don't, you don't. No big deal. But no need to put anyone down or create negativity around it.

Personally, I think it has a place in the industry. Traditional form-factor will help use on shoulder and rigging for scripted/studio work. Respectable codec will deliver flexible enough images...specially for folks who like the "Canon look" (compressed warm tones and greener blues). Has decent enough outputs and inputs. I haven't looked into gen-lock, time-code or other features yet so I cannot comment.

I'm wonder whether it will be a big seller amongst owner-ops, but I think it could do well in the rental market. Plus, I could totally be wrong and it can prove to be an owner-op favorite.

Canon stuff is always sold at a higher price-point. Personally, I'm just glad to have another tool that I can use to help get a new gig please a client or tell a story with budget and schedule in mind. If the rental price is too close to Alexa, I'll choose Alexa (unless I need 4k, at which point, I can now choose between C700, Reds, F5/55/65, Varicam, etc...). But if the rental price point is somewhere close to Red Scarlet W, F5, or even FS7, and it is for fast turn-around work that cannot afford a color-timing session and is well served by the "canon look", I'll shoot the crap out of that C700!

But for now, the camera has barely been announced. I'm gonna take some time to see whether and how it fits within the range of options available for rent. As far as owning one, I probably won't. But if you will, pleeeeeease share your thoughts and experiences. Super excited to hear them :)

This post is aimed at bringing back a bit more civility to the conversation, not to acuse or shame anyone personally. We all can get carried away on the forums and it's totally understandable. Not something to be ashamed of. But maybe let's step back a bit and return with cool heads :)
Click to expand...
Well said...and appreciated!
 
As a 1DC and C100 MK II owner here is my dream Canon line-up and price points;
• C700 just under $15k
• C300 should be competitive with FS7 around $7-8k
• C100 MK III (with 4K) priced around FS5 $5k.
 
dp90068 said:
There are a few features the C700 has that the F55 announced in 2012 doesn't have like the Codex and what seems to be an incredible viewfinder. But many of the firmware functions of the F55 didn't ship for a very long time so maybe it's a tie... F55 owners would know better than I. The F55 shipped incomplete, maybe the C700 ships with 90%+ enabled.

Should the heading of this post be ~IBC 2012 ships in 2016!

Internal ProRes is a plus. It's just IMHO the C700 misses the mark. Who am I to say? Well I was a cameraman for 25 years, owned over $300K in gear over the years and my work has aired on most major networks in the world. Speaking from my age and experience (which is way too old)... one might say the C700 will be about as successful as the full size Varicam which is way overpriced for owner/ operators. Panasonic missed the mark and the proof is the introduction of the Varicam LT.

I did make a mistake early this morning converting Euros to dollars. My bad. For 2K more the Global shutter is probably a good way to go but I am disappointed the OU-700 panel is an option.

I really wonder about Canon. They are clearly driven by marketing tactics. Might be some arrogance over the success of the 5DIII and the C300, which I owned and am very impressed with. This is one camera where you really have to work with it to understand it's greatness.

On the plus side Canon's contribution to Cinema glass is outstanding. They are really making the right moves and we are all the better for it.

We'll see what happens at NAB 2017. I'll bet a bagel (my treat!) the C700 is not a hot seller.
Click to expand...
Don-
I'll take that bet....already have some orders and a lot of phone calls!......anyway good points and we'll see.
 
dp90068 said:
There. Someone said it. Fugly camera.
Click to expand...

That's my first thought upon seeing the pics. But hey, it's what's on the inside that counts and I'm sure the image will be lovely.

If Canon's trying to take on Alexa and Red, pretty much the most popular cameras on the higher end, they should have given the C700 something special like a Full Frame sensor or something to separate it from the crowd.

I feel like Red realizes that Alexa is on top so they're super feisty and are always going for the Gold by really pushing it. The C700 seems like it's aiming for the Bronze.
 
So, which other cameras can do internal 4K ProRes (not counting internal UHD uprez)?
And which other cameras can do baked look 4K ProRes?

It's an honest question. Anybody care to answer?
 
Good disucssions here. What many users who may not work on television and features may or may not realize is that when cameras go past around the $30k mark, in a way, the cost doesn't matter. Sure, it matters for the owner/operator and rental houses. But to DPs, directors and producers of television shows, cost is irrelevant and to a small point, the exact features, these days, are irrelevant. Most of the high end cameras used for features accept Codex for feature workflow so that was a smart move on Canon's part. Shooting Prores was a smart move too. All of the higher end cameras make insanely good images in the hands of a pro. F55, Amira, Red, Varicam, Varicam LT, Alexa Mini and now this camera. It's really all going to boil down to personal preference. Personally I feel this camera is a bit expensive for what it offers, but Canon still may have a fall back position with the C500 MKII, if it exists.

If it doesn't, we all know that they already have huge gaps in their price points so that may not be surprising either. This will be a very nice, competent camera that is capable of super images. We could argue specific features or the lack of them but for episodic and features, this camera may be quite successful. Canon glass and the look it gives is well known and beloved by many DPs and directors. Canon's "DNA" "Mojo" or "Color Science" is generally ranked in the top two with the Arris getting the nod. While this camera may not set the world on fire with innovation or value, it appears to be solid and well thought out. Canon is never going to intentionally be the groundbreaking company that so many Canon fans want them to be. The 5D MKII was basically an accidental innovation. People always complain that Canon "could be so much more" but history has proven that they are more cautious and more of a follower than an innovator. And that's okay, that's Canon. Meanwhile, their profits have been increasing as both of their main competition, Sony and Nikon, as corporations, teeter on the precipice of going under or being sold off. We here in our little pro video bubble often aren't aware of the bigger picture of what is happening fiscally with the companies that make our toys. Huge, legendary, well established companies are presently hanging on by a thread, like AVID, Sony, Nikon, etc. Canon seems to be keeping up sales worldwide pretty well so I think they deserve some credit for making their business model, frustrating through it can be to us, work.
 
Last edited:
Parrot said:
So, which other cameras can do internal 4K ProRes (not counting internal UHD uprez)?
And which other cameras can do baked look 4K ProRes?

It's an honest question. Anybody care to answer?
Click to expand...

All the new Reds do ProRes. Weapon and up does 4K ProRes. I'm pretty sure it can do a baked look, but haven't used the ProRes yet.
 
Parrot said:
So, which other cameras can do internal 4K ProRes (not counting internal UHD uprez)?
And which other cameras can do baked look 4K ProRes?

It's an honest question. Anybody care to answer?
Click to expand...

Blackmagic MiniUrsa 4.6K (at least UHD)
Aja Cion

Haven't gone through Red's site, but does the Weapon do 4K Prores? Edit: thanks Gene for the update on Weapons.

The point being, it's not gee whiz or huge financial thing. It's a corporate culture thing and a relief to see Canon implement Prores on the C700.

Above a certain price point I would be very hesitant to be an owner/operator. As a DP I've witnessed incredible(ly low) rental rates for indie features from major rental houses. I have to shake my head and go "Gee, what an amazing deal." If I get another TV show and act as the camera vendor, then yes I'd consider the C700 especially if the low light capabilities prove worthy- cause the producers are going to want 4K Prores over RAW without question. C-fast over Express P2 cards? Absolutely- especially on a multicam shoot with fast turnaround. You need cards- lots of cards- we don't wipe them until post has backup copies in hand.
Features- a different story- entirely dependent on budget.

If the C700 has excellent low light abilities I'd ask the producers to rent one. Or test one against a Varicam. The Alexa/Amira and F55 are "eh-ok" in low-ish light. But a true low light workhorse would work for me- give the Varicam LT competition. Which is a good thing.

So true 4K, Prores 4K, low light ability, nonproprietary recording media, standard-ish cinema ergonomics; all this adds up to producer comfort- and dp comfort.
 
Last edited:
klk said:
Blackmagic MiniUrsa 4.6K (at least UHD)
Aja Cion

Haven't gone through Red's site, but does the Weapon do 4K Prores?
Click to expand...

Yep, Weapon and up it's ProRes 4K.

Strange thing is, the ProRes was a big selling point for me, but since getting mine I haven't even used ProRes once because R3D is so amazing. But I do love the compressed XAVC codec for my FS7 (which I would never do RAW on) since most jobs I get with that are more Doc / RunGun. Different codecs for different types of shooting. Compressed for quicker turn around and RAW when you want the absolute most flexibility and quality.
 
CraigM said:
As a 1DC and C100 MK II owner here is my dream Canon line-up and price points;
• C700 just under $15k
• C300 should be competitive with FS7 around $7-8k
• C100 MK III (with 4K) priced around FS5 $5k.
Click to expand...

Ultimately the C300 MKII will probably have to compete with the F7 in price. BUT by that time Sony will come out with three more models! - joke, that last line is just a joke.
 
alohype said:
Nice camera but at least 2 years late.
Click to expand...
I've said that about every Canon professional camcorder introduced since... oh, probably the XLH1. Still, they keep selling and people keep loving them. But no, don't ever count on leading-edge or bleeding-edge products from Canon, they always let everyone else go first and they always come out with something that maximizes last-generation tech.
 
gene_can_sing said:
Yep, Weapon and up it's ProRes 4K.
Click to expand...

How many Ks do you need on your RED Weapon to get 4K ProRes out of it? And can it do nice baked looks? I know initially it was for the full frame 8K only. Can't find any reference to baked look being implemented yet. I don't hang out at Reduser very often, so I might have missed something.

I'm not trolling! It's an honest question. Just trying to figure out if the Canon C700 is the only camera in that category that can do nicely baked 4K ProRes as that is a frequent request from clients. I can, of course, deliver 4K ProRes LOG with my C300mk2 & Odyssey7Q, but I can't deliver baked 4K ProRes right out of that combo.

For that types of clients Black Magic and AJA aren't considered viable options. That might change, of course.
 
Last edited:
dp90068 said:
There are a few features the C700 has that the F55 announced in 2012 doesn't have like the Codex and what seems to be an incredible viewfinder...
Click to expand...
Recently Sony announced a new recorder for F55 (and F5) that can deploy several of their new codecs, including several versions/ratios of compressed Raw.

Now, let's see what else gets announced.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top