C300: Canon C300 mark II costs the same as an ARRI AMIRA - NO IT DOESNT.

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jindrich

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This conversation I have heard already a couple of times at this side of the Pond.

The C300mk2 will sell for €16k (plus 20-25% VAT). That's NOT the final price though.
The new C300mk2 is 1.5 pounds heavier and even taller than before. Now weighting 3.5kg you'll only be able to hold it and shoot as-is, out of the box, for 30 sec tops.
Meaning you'll require the WHOLE shoulder package. In Zacuto's terms, that's adding the Gratical EVF, Recoil rig, Relocator, Arms, Z-drive FF, Cheesplates and V-Mount Batt adapters, etc. In all, another €8k.

Therefore, €16k+8k equals €24k(+VAT), which is precisely what the AMIRA sells for over here.

The difference is that with the C300 you end up with an uncomfortable, heavier, tall FrankenRig and cable mess, that will even take 10 mins to setup each time. On the other hand the AMIRA is a pick-and-shoot, with all the color science, 200fps, 4k@60fps and brand recognition (high-end clients), that does it all, Broadcast docus, reality, drama, Tv Commercials.

So whether freelancers or corporations, who'd opt or the C300mk2, when the Amira will cost the same?

The above wouldn't be the case, had Canon listened to the many complaints regarding the C300 awful ergonomics and had redesigned the camera as a proper shoulder mount and included an EVF, just as BMD has brilliantly done with the new Mini Ursa.
 
Yeah or get an Easyrig for 1000€.
And about VAT: which non-pro buys a C300II?

Not saying the Amira isn't a great option in the EU.
 
Having held one at NAB, I'd be REALLY surprised if it weighs 3.5 kilos (7.7 lbs.). It didn't feel all that much heavier than the original C300. They had a "loose" C300 Mark II and original C300 right next to each other in the "See in the Dark" display in their booth, so I held them both back to back. It was heavier, but it definitely wasn't "holy crap, this is a boat anchor."

That said, if you're a healthy adult and can only hold 7 lbs. for 30 seconds, you should probably invest in a gym membership rather than a bunch of Zacuto bits. I regularly shoot my Ronin handheld for a few minutes at a time... and that's a 9.5 lb Ronin with a C100 Mark II (2.2 lbs plus lens) on it.

There are also more cost-effective (while being as good) ways to rig a camera than pulling everything from the Zacuto catalog.
 
jindrich said:
The above wouldn't be the case, had Canon listened to the many complaints regarding the C300 awful ergonomics and had redesigned the camera as a proper shoulder mount and included an EVF, just as BMD has brilliantly done with the new Mini Ursa.
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I've always hated the C300 ergos and making it taller and heavier just isn't for me. I figured Canon would keep the shape as a lot of people from DSLR backgrounds love the form. I bought an FS7 as it had what I wanted and the BMD Ursa mini looks pretty sweet also although I'm not sure how you are supposed to adjust audio while on shoulder as the screen blocks the dials or at least from what I saw.

Lots of options. Different strokes for different folks. It will be interesting to see how the C300II does now that there is lots of solid competition in the market segment the mk1 thrived. All solid cameras. We as consumers are very spoiled for choice.
 
Had to look for it: C300mk2 body only, 1,880g. With LDC, grip and handle, 3.37kg, and over 3.5kg with a battery.
Add a proper lens and it's yet another kg. Finally add a shotgun and a lavalier receiver and you're well OVER 5kg, closer to 6kg!

How long can you handhold a 5-6kg C300?

Cam ops at docus and realities must run all over the place for 8-10 hours a day. This C300mk2 camera REQUIRES a shoulder kit (rig+EVF+V-Mount Batts, etc).

That puts the price equal to an AMIRA (in the EU at least), while being heavier and considerably more cumbersome. I don't see many broadcasters/corporations choosing it over the ARRI, considering all this.
 
Cam ops shooting docs and reality are still using the original C300 over here. Just worked on a commercial where the DP used an Arri Amira and even though he loves the camera he said it was NOT light to carry. BTW the second camera on the commercial was a Canon C300.
 
Are we talking about the UK specifically here? And if so that's not what is reflected by CVP. The Advanced licence Amira (4K) is around 28k euro with no batteries or media. The dovetail / shoulder aren't standard and need to be purchased. Thats a 3840x2160 camera.

Total price to purchase is well into the the 30's once you're done.

Let's take out all the accessories and talk about ready to shoot and we'll assume you have no battery power.

Amira - you need AB or V mount plus batteries an charger - min spend about 2500 euro. Plus one 64gb Cfast and reader about 280 euro. The camera has no plate mount - you must choose one - but lets leave that off for now and be conservative. SO for the 4K amira base, min to shoot you're around 31k euro and I was unable to ascertain if that includes VAT - I'd assume not.

C300 (inc VAT) - need one card and reader 280 euro - based on CVP Prices inc Vat about 19K euro - that seems like a fair difference to me. That C300 MKII price is announced price - street usually brings that down by the time it hits the market - it did with the original.

None of my comments here refer to quality of either cameras - just cost comparison. The title of this thread is very misleading - if there is a place that this is true, tell me and Ill edit the title to reflect that.
 
These types of posts intended to troll Canon users are strange. Sometimes people have legitimate points to make. Often, it's just some comparison of costs vs specs. In this case, I don't think the OP has ever used an Amira as it is certainly not a light camera and it still requires all of the same cables and hops to operate as the C300. He has obviously never used a C300mkii. I just don't understand why some people are still so upset about Canon releasing what some people perceive to be overpriced products. I guess it is because there are still so many people using Canon's in the field and so many productions houses looking to use Canon cameras. But, why care?
 
While I own and use cameras (mostly Canon) I don't shoot anything because I'm a Creative Director and not a Cam Op. We use Alexas and eventually some Amira for the stuff we do (advertising and broadcast).

I was curious about the C300 replacement and as many think Canon is no longer paying enough attention to the market. The C300 was a success as it was the ONLY S35 camera that did broadcast out of the box, despite its terrible ergonomics and use of photo lenses (which were a PITA to cam ops).

But the scene has changed A LOT. The FS7 has taken the market by storm in the lower end, along with the F5 and F55. Then there's the Amira, BMCs, newer REDs, etc, and even the 4K DSLRs are been used professionally. The new C300mk2 must also compete with the old C300 as broadcast doesn't care about 4K. In fact EU networks (600 Million viewers) are still airing half its channels in SD.

An example of what I'm talking about. German Pro7 high-end "Germany's Next top Model" show with Heidi Klum. Shot for the two last seasons with F800 (A cam) and C300s as B cams, along with a single FS700 for the slow-mo and 7D/5Ds for stationaries. This season is F800, and FS7 have replaced all canons as they can be both compact and shoulder mountable, 180fps, plus there's the 24-135 lens. GoPros have also replaced the 7D/5Ds. Canon has been wiped out.

On lesser budget shows FS7/F5 have also replaced C300s. On more drama-oriented stuff it's, Amiras now.

The new C300mk2 can't compete with the FS7 on price/fps for low cost shows and neither with the Amira for higher end as it will end up costing the same (C300mk2 shoulder mount equipped) and has, again, terrible ergonomics.


cpreston said:
I don't think the OP has ever used an Amira as it is certainly not a light camera and it still requires all of the same cables and hops to operate as the C300. He has obviously never used a C300mkii
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???? A shoulder equipped C300mk2 will have cables all over the place for the handle, LCD, EVF and V-Mount batteries/power distro, besides being ubertall and having arms, rods and levers everywhere. The Amira is a single block piece.
 
jindrich said:
This conversation I have heard already a couple of times at this side of the Pond.

The C300mk2 will sell for €16k (plus 20-25% VAT). That's NOT the final price though.
Therefore, €16k+8k equals €24k(+VAT), which is precisely what the AMIRA sells for over here.
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Ok plz stop that .... dont want to use hard words, but its tempting! its simply not true at all! i took a price list from a dealer and here is a list price for amira:

Amira economical is 25980 e + VAT - has max 100fps and 1080p ONLY, evf included, but nothing else, not even the lens mount! also i believe amira is not true 4k cam...
Amira premium - 32980 e + VAT

need to be ordered separately :
Lens mount - Bundle - 6150 e +vat
PL or EF - 1180 e + vat each

battery mount V or B= 395 e + vat
mic holder 98e

and there are more little things that u need to buy to make it look like u see on images... price list contains 42 pages.

also the price for amira - its what its sells for now, but the price for c300II - its not that solid yet, we will know the street price only after its out

u wanna say u need 8k extra to use c300? if u crazy enough u could spend even 20k extra, nothing stops u. i still has same shoulder rig as i have like 4-5 years. - tilta and its still works great. and i am sure everyone has some kind of shoulder support if its not your 1st day in business.
also u not necessary need evf with c300, monitor is good, and new one is probably even better , when its on a shoulder it rotates nicely....

so u need evf? well what cam is out there that u dont need evf then? i got a loop but its not that useful. problems with sun - get the hoodman, bad vision - glasses will help. i own more then 2 years my c300 and dont have evf. get a few tools from zacuto new or used from ebay and i dont believe u need more then 1500-2000 usd for proper shoulder, but again only ifs your 1st cam probably. shooting tv shows all the time - get the easyrig. its like 900 euro for light model. have it works great!

i did a comertial work for the factory that produces Jery Cans, there is no way i could use Amira there.... there were no space for it. i would not compare cams that different, c300 is great for run and gun and for tight spaces. i had no problem filming the whole day while the factory was 100% working, i went through all the processes including painting..... just imagine the amount of dust.... no problems and cam is still alive! i would be kind of scared to do the same with amira (even if it would be physically possible)

c300 is ready to shoot out of the box .... all u need is card and lens, u can add some tools later if necessary but its not 100% something that u have to have. c300 II even better as it has a much improved EVF ..... strip is down and just shoot.
 
I haven't read all the comments but just wanted to say you statements are 100% false.

C300 mkII = 16K USD
Arri Amira = 35K USD

How do these cameras cost the same or even compete in the same range? they dont...

Plus, the 35K$ is a base model, no lens mount, no media, and it's 1080p, and only rec709!,

So to get LogC, 3.2k, EVF, EF lens mount, decent high bit rate codec, (to basically make it in-line with the c300) it's 45,000 USD, While the C300 is 16.000 USD, add media to both and the true ownership of both cameras is around

-20K for C300 mkII
-47K for Arri Amira

How do you figure they cost the same? Do you mean designing a custom steel iron Amira casing that goes on the C300 for 27$?
 
cpreston said:
I just don't understand why some people are still so upset about Canon releasing what some people perceive to be overpriced products.
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Its the same as PC/Android vrs Apple. The one side fights as hard as the otherside and they both look rediculous. I do find it entertaining that many Canon users who just a few months ago were saying that 4K, over 12 stops DR & overcranking isn't important then the moment Canon releases the C300II its now "revolutionary" when others have been doing it for well over a year.

I find it very entertaining watching people either trip over themselves to hate on Canon and those who will think anything Canon does is the best thing ever. Its a tool just shoot with what works best for you in the budget/market you work.
 
I'll mention it again, these are prices in the EU, for instance, germany. €24k for the amira basic, the advanced is a couple thousands more, up to €32k for the premium. The thing is that freelancers are opting for the more basic model and rent the premium licence for the shoot and charge it to the client, just like you charge for lighting, makeup or props.
The c300 mk2 is not usuable without a rig and an expensive evf, hence the €16k body plus 8k for all the other stuff. The zcuto gratical alone is €4k.
All this I've been told from existing c300 freelancers that are NOT upgrading to the mk2, but after doing numbers are rather getting the Amira.
In the USA prices might be completely different
 
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Jeez!!!! What makes this ridiculous and worse than second hand information is that creative directors are actually now (and in the USA) influencing camera decision based on this totally biased and inaccurate information. I have actual experience of agencies deciding on a camera and then choosing a DP. Now, thank goodness this is not standard practice, but it happens all the time. Maybe as a DP I should look over your boards and make sure I think the creative is up to my standards.

I am a C300 freelancer and will be considering the C300 mark II once it is available, tested and after I rent on a time or two. It will no doubt be cheaper than an Amira. Obviously you have a friend that has decided to buy the Amira and you want to get him work. Or you have a financial involvement in the decision.That's great. But why start a ridiculous thread like this when the C300 II is not even available yet.
 
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