Canon announces EOS 80D

Personally, I would get a kick out of it if Canon started manufacturing VHS camcorders again.....call it vintage...and slap a hefty price tag on it. My take is...if your gonna do it...GO ALL IN!
 
traviswears said:
I keep seeing these kinds of posts defending Canon's lack of 4k w/their DSLR line. Nothing you said is a logical counterpoint.

Shooting 4k enhances the HD workflow, and provides more options in post-production. Whether you personally like it or not, it's become the new standard in basic camera specs. My phone shoots 4k, my OSMO, Phantom 3Pro, FS7 and GoPro shoot 4k. If I'm buying a $1200 camera, you can bet I'm going to want 4k as an option.

Re: "don't run before you can walk" I shoot 4k all the time, for professional productions, commercials, broadcast TV and it's become essential for my workflow. You may not have gotten there yet, but please don't presume to know how others operate.

Also, these types of comments contribute little to a productive conversation. Do you actually want manufacturers to quit innovating? Why? And if so, what are you doing poking around in a camera specs thread? Just go out and play w/your HD toys and be content.
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Well said, I remember the SD vs HD debate and even if people don't need it today, the industry changes incredibly fast.

Personally I thought it would be at least another year until clients would ask for the final product in 4K, but in 2015 half of my work was delivered in 4K.

I'm a Sony convert myself, just because it seems like they are listening to what filmmakers want in cameras.
 
dustylense said:
Don't like it? Don't buy it. Go buy another camera with 4K marketing on it. Sony has how many? How many of the Sony's have some people bought? All of them? There are still more hobbyist that buy cameras for still picture taking than there are videographers throughout the world. Lot's of people that I show any of my 4K cameras to and say, "It's shoots 4K" look at me like I'm from deep space. I have to explain what 4K is to them. Some of them respond, "Like playstation"?

4K isn't as popular as people think here.
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This is a correct assessment. HD isn't going anywhere for a LONG time. I too got weird looks on a shoot with a FS5 with Agency people a few weeks ago. Was shooting wider and they kept telling me to tighten the shot up. I said the same thing, and the Jr. executive or intern or whatever obviously had no idea what 4K means from a shooting standpoint. That being said, yeah, this camera is underwhelming from a video standpoint.
 
Although certainly a welcome feature, the addition of a headphone jack (eureka!) is a nod to more pro level video production. I have to say I like the baked in color of canon quite a bit in a lot of cases (work with a guy who makes steady income with a T6i). I am more interested in 4k as a quality improvement when downsampled. Not a fan, generally, of the reframing in post approach. You don't get the same optical results doing that..and in some cases, audio and lighting have to work around it at some level of compromise. But acquiring in 4+k is getting us closer to convergence of stills and video..meaning frame grabs approaching high quality stills.
I think more would be ok with Canon's current bifurcation approach if their pricing was less stubborn.
 
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lovecameras said:
HD will be around for a while yet mate, better get used to it. Many countries still broadcast 480i/576i.....don't run before you can walk.
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This is not just about HD but doing clean HD the right way. Of course a camera that can produce clean artifact free HD would still be a valid camera. Unfortunately this is a Canon camera so we know what their definition of HD actually is. Soft, lack of detail and full of line skipping, aliasing and moire.

There are many definitions of what HD quality means beyond just dumping some pixels into a 1920x1080 container.

For many of us shooting 4k isn't as much about delivering 4k as it is to achieve a higher level of what true HD quality can actually be.

I'm still rather astonished that Canon photographers can scrutinize the life out of a photograph and yet turn a blind eye to video because hey man it moves.

While HD is still a thing and likely will be for a long time it is time to get rid of the hacked form of HD some DSLRs deliver. Line skipping may have made sense five years ago but there is no excuse for it today. Line skipping is about the worse possible method to get a larger sensor down to HD. I'm sorry Canon doesn't get a pass for being lazy and refusing to develop its method of delivering HD video. I'm sure its a nice stills camera but honestly at this stage I don't even want to see consumers posting Canon video on Youtube because it is so subpar what HD can really be.

Honestly the reason why you see so many of us making a big deal about this is because really we would all be open to using Canon cameras to shoot video but as it stands I'm sorry but the quality is no longer there. As professionals we shouldn't have to make excuses. Canon makes great glass and takes great stills but they need to be called out on their sloppy sad method of delivering video.
 
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jowei said:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=17720

Groundbreaking.

Edit: At least they had the bright idea to add both a mic and headphone jack. :thumbsup:
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I imagine the "groundbreaking" comment was sarcasm. All I can do is shake my head and laugh at the pathetic rate of advancement in their dslr line up. It's actually become funny to me :-) After seeing Sony release the a6300, and the incredibly innovative specs it's jam packed with, all I can do is chuckle at Canon. You can't tell me the other manufacturers aren't scratching their heads. It used to be Canon was considered conservative in terms of functionality and life cycle, now it seems they have lost all reality of the market in terms of what people want. Of course there will always be the soccer mom who buys whatever the ill informed high school student at Ritz shames them into purchasing, but anyone with half a brain will look at the current offerings and compare specs between brands. I would think anyone invested into the Canon ecosystem would be second guessing their decision to stay with them at this point. I know I did,, 4 yrs. ago!!
 
maranfilms said:
... but anyone with half a brain will look at the current offerings and compare specs between brands. I would think anyone invested into the Canon ecosystem would be second guessing their decision to stay with them at this point.
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Any camera is a tool. If it doesn't suit you, don't use it. But categorizing those who do use it as somehow of lower intelligence (stupid, half-brained, whathaveyou) is downright unnecessary, and a bit counterproductive.
 
maranfilms said:
I imagine the "groundbreaking" comment was sarcasm. All I can do is shake my head and laugh at the pathetic rate of advancement in their dslr line up. It's actually become funny to me :-) After seeing Sony release the a6300, and the incredibly innovative specs it's jam packed with, all I can do is chuckle at Canon. You can't tell me the other manufacturers aren't scratching their heads. It used to be Canon was considered conservative in terms of functionality and life cycle, now it seems they have lost all reality of the market in terms of what people want. Of course there will always be the soccer mom who buys whatever the ill informed high school student at Ritz shames them into purchasing, but anyone with half a brain will look at the current offerings and compare specs between brands. I would think anyone invested into the Canon ecosystem would be second guessing their decision to stay with them at this point. I know I did,, 4 yrs. ago!!
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Do you call the 1DxII's frame rate of 16-18 FPS "pathetic"? How about battery life in all Canon's? What about focus speed? How about pixel depth focus? How about that sensor that can shoot fire flies?

Again, there are far more stills shooters concerned with the stills capabilities of the Canon than there are video shooters. And as for video side, there are proper video cameras available either from Canon or many other video-centric cameras.

Everybody keeps talking about Sony wiping the floor with the A series lineup (all 6 of them) and how Canon is behind. Was it last week or the week before that Sony announced a F/2.8 zoom? Seriously. Was is a couple weeks ago that Sony updated some cameras to shoot 14bit RAW from 11bit RAW? Seriously. Where is Sony's camera that will enable sports shooters to cover the 2016 Olympics? Do they even have a battery that can get you past 75 shots?

The 1DxII has 4k. "But there is no LOG"! I'm fairly certain a stills shooter (what the camera is built to do) doesn't give a rats ass about LOG in that camera. They are going to possibly use the 4K 60fps video to shoot the beginning of a 100 meter relay for a stills grab that will be displayed online and possibly in a print publication done the line.

Here is the best part. You get to pick the camera that you want to buy. Hopefully you didn't buy the Samsung HDslr.
 
lovecameras said:
HD will be around for a while yet mate, better get used to it. Many countries still broadcast 480i/576i.....don't run before you can walk.
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lol, In some countries people still live in mud huts, what's your point? Are you saying I shouldn't buy and use 4k because third world countries still shoot sd? I could care less what other markets shoot at, I shoot 4k mostly and would NEVER consider buying anything that wasn't. We are in 2016, it's not my fault Canon is stuck in 2009.
 
Alex H. said:
Any camera is a tool. If it doesn't suit you, don't use it. But categorizing those who do use it as somehow of lower intelligence (stupid, half-brained, whathaveyou) is downright unnecessary, and a bit counterproductive.
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My point was making a purchase without educating yourself is pretty foolish, A lot of people that go into stores take what the sales people say as gospel, and have never taken the time to compare specs between different brands or models.
 
firehawk said:
I'm not saying the Canon cameras don't make good images, but it seems they charge a PREMIUM. In addition to the hefty prices, are incrementally slow in advancing features. I've followed the C100, C300 and various other camers through the years as well. Is this correct or am I off base here?
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I've been watching the four major manufacturers for many, many years, and no, you're not wrong at all.

Speaking about pro video cameras ONLY:
Canon generally uses older technology, offers fewer features, and charges more for their products. Canon is generally slow to enter a market, and they usually have a reasonably robust solution, but they are almost always behind the curve compared to everyone else.
Panasonic is generally first to market with new technology (tapeless, 1080/24p, variable frame rates, large-sensor affordable camcorder, etc), and is comparatively less expensive, they're almost always around 30% less than a comparable Sony product.
Sony generally follows Panasonic, and makes "more" (a bigger sensor, a heftier codec, more menu control, things like that) and charges about 30% more.
JVC generally makes some wild off-the-wall thing with some outrageous hacked-in implementation (like 4 HDMI outputs on their 4K camera, or a m43 mount on an S35 sensor, or using two SD chips glued together to make an "HD" chip). They're cheap, and they're generally knocked for quality.

So if you're looking for market-leading innovation, you probably will be continually disappointed by Canon. They are rarely ever "bleeding edge", in fact they're rarely ever "leading edge", they're more typically "trailing edge." Someone else put it that they watch and see what everyone else has done, and once all the cards have been played, Canon comes in and lays down their trump card. Problem with that strategy is that things are moving too fast nowadays to let that play out anymore.
 
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Barry_Green said:
... Someone else put it that they watch and see what everyone else has done, and once all the cards have been played, Canon comes in and lays down their trump card. Problem with that strategy is that things are moving too fast nowadays to let that play out anymore.
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Speaking of trump cards - Canon's, obviously, been its ecosystem but even that is changing, as Sigma is getting into the fully electronic adapter biz. With them being bigger than other electronic adapter manufacturers and fairly well respected as a maker of the top notch Art lens series, this could be a serious game changer (sorry, I just had to use the term).

http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/sig...c-adapter-and-new-dp-quattro-firmware-update/

If this is well implemented, folks won't need to sell their EF mounts when Canon is a tad slow on the uptake with a suitable model.

PS. In the late 80's - early 90's, Canon's Hi-8 products were considered state of the art in the consumer electronics world. Panasonic made those tiny VHS-C Palmcorders; JVC made a slew of models, Sony dominated in the mid-to-high end but Canon certainly held it own there. Then there were Hitachi and Mitsubishi too. Many of them rebadged the competitors models just so they could offer a full lineup with their TV's and VCR's, which were far greater sources of revenues.
 
Barry_Green said:
I've been watching the four major manufacturers for many, many years, and no, you're not wrong at all.

Speaking about pro video cameras ONLY:
Canon generally uses older technology, offers fewer features, and charges more for their products. Canon is generally slow to enter a market, and they usually have a reasonably robust solution, but they are almost always behind the curve compared to everyone else.
Panasonic is generally first to market with new technology (tapeless, 1080/24p, variable frame rates, large-sensor affordable camcorder, etc), and is comparatively less expensive, they're almost always around 30% less than a comparable Sony product.
Sony generally follows Panasonic, and makes "more" (a bigger sensor, a heftier codec, more menu control, things like that) and charges about 30% more.
JVC generally makes some wild off-the-wall thing with some outrageous hacked-in implementation (like 4 HDMI outputs on their 4K camera, or a m43 mount on an S35 sensor, or using two SD chips glued together to make an "HD" chip). They're cheap, and they're generally knocked for quality.

So if you're looking for market-leading innovation, you probably will be continually disappointed by Canon. They are rarely ever "bleeding edge", in fact they're rarely ever "leading edge", they're more typically "trailing edge." Someone else put it that they watch and see what everyone else has done, and once all the cards have been played, Canon comes in and lays down their trump card. Problem with that strategy is that things are moving too fast nowadays to let that play out anymore.
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the past 1-2 years, sony has been trailblazing in tech and price while panasonic has not.
 
Guys,
Buy the camera that excites you. Why waste time bashing up cameras and manufacturers?

Just the other day one guy won the world press photo awards using a Canon 5DII. Does anyone remember that camera? 5D II even had the AF of the original 5D. Will you laugh at that guy because he uses a 5DII?

If your business justifies it then go and buy the 1DXII. It has 4K video with 60fps and a touch screen that can help you in focusing. You won't get that DPAF technology anywhere. Show me which other manufacturer has got it. And why do you guys ignore that as not leading/bleeding edge technology? Remember no amount of resolution is good enough when your footage lacks critical focus.

The 80D, 800D etc are meant for a different segment of people. If that doesn't satisfy us, then obviously we have to buy something different either from Canon or from other manufacturers. If Canon realises that they are not getting enough sales, then obviously they will offer better value proposition. Vote with your wallet. Don't buy. And don't pick up projects where the producer wants you to shoot with Canon 5D III or other canon cameras. Perhaps then Canon will get a message?? :)
 
dcloud said:
evil triumphs when good men stay silent.
same thing here. s*%tty cameras will stay s*%tty if no one speaks up
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Canon don't care about a few forum posts.... If enough people buy the camera, then Canon's "way" will stay in place.

If I were a YouTube shooter, I'd probably prefer dual pixel AF and Wi-Fi over 4k and S-log.

I won't bother bashing a camera that isn't marketed at me.
 
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