The 'Red' is perfect for the commercial's world as nobody there is able to make up their mind: we shoot RAW (whatever that is) so we can change everything later. And that's how the 'RED' is pitched, with the 'don't worry' you can change everything later' line. It's funny but sad.
Canon 7D killed my scarlet dreams!
- Thread starter Nik Manning
- Start date
- Status
astigmatic
Well-known member
I think once the scarlet comes out and peeps see the huge difference in resolution versus the dslrs, the dslr craze will end quicker than it started
Last edited:
ive been working with ALOT of red here in NY. film is unfortunately unheard of... and ENG form factor hd is becoming rarer.
its either, RED or Hvx...
its either, RED or Hvx...
I guess cameras that don't exist always blow away cameras that do exist in our imagination.
The DSLRs (5DII & 7D) produce superb images now. Just how much better than superb do you think Scarlet will be. Since you made a prediction, permit me to as well. I've seen the Izzy video. Put the same Iguana in front of the 5DII and see if you can tell a difference.
I predict the image quality between the DSLRs (5D & 7D) and the Scarlet which will be well in excess of $6,000 dollars in S35 will be so close that VDSLRs will actually increase in sales as people sitting on the fence waiting for Scarlet after seeing side by side comparisons won't be able to justify the extra expense. There are reasons to go with scarlet but image quality won't be one of them. Look at where the 5DII and 7D are now. Just where do you think this technology will be when Scarlet is released. So, I would say that when Scarlet is released and it is able to actually be compared to the Current VDSLRs and what ever else is on the market in 2015, the Scarlet fad will end quicker than it started.
astigmatic
Well-known member
from what i've read, the 5dii doens't even have the resolving power of the ex1, I may be wrong though since I don'thave one, but if so, i'll predict that izzy will look a whole lot better on the big screen shot with whatever Red comes out with.
13th Judas
Active member
the 3K at $3K 2/3" fixed lens scarlet is still alluring. i would prefer this on event than any vDSLR. as a cinema tool, i would use it in my wide shots and maybe action shots, then, if i require a shallow DOF, instead of using an expensive 35 adaptor, i would use the very affordable 7D.
c'mon guys, scarlet and vDSLR can co- exist
.
(it's a bit weird using the words scalet and exist in the same sentence. sorry guys i can't help it :grin: ).
c'mon guys, scarlet and vDSLR can co- exist
.(it's a bit weird using the words scalet and exist in the same sentence. sorry guys i can't help it :grin: ).
Adam J McKay
Veteran
I am going to go ahead and say that the vast majority of us don't need a 5k sensor anytime soon. Yes, there are people who do, but HD T.V isn't even a standard yet and very few Cinemas are projecting 4k. The Panavision Genesis puts out 1080p. Is scarlet going to be better because of its 5k bayer pattern sensor? I understand full that right now the VDLSR are lacking the form factor and functionality of a dedicated video system...but it's only a matter of time. So again, comparing make believe with make believe. Scarlet VS Next gen ( or two ) of Canon prosumer cameras.... We just don't know. There have been talks about what each will do and how beautiful the images might be, but won't know until Phillip Bloom tests them haha.
a lot of talk about "red raw".
what you can get today from the red one after spending 2-5x more on lighting and severely limiting what you can do in a scene to help out the camera, and after any manipulation possible in post it is not the "raw" image every one thinks it is.
what you can get today from the red one after spending 2-5x more on lighting and severely limiting what you can do in a scene to help out the camera, and after any manipulation possible in post it is not the "raw" image every one thinks it is.
Last edited:
Adam J McKay
Veteran
Im not really sure if that was a negative comment or not haha
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Shooting RAW is absolutely the dream, its nothing to do with not being able to make up ones mind..
On set you have to make up your mind..
on a bad monitor
in a hurry
before you have shot everything
that even cameras like the SonyF35 you bake in your look onset I find amazingly dumb
not only does raw give you some insurance (latitiude) it also enables you to creat a look in a controlled environment
and potentially (i dont know about this for motion) do HDR where one uses the latitude to the full to recover skies etc
I want RAW
Not having raw is like taking your film to the local 1 hour photo and then burning the negatives
S
Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
keep it civil, please.
joe 1008
Veteran
I should have said SEVERAL years ago. Seven is too specific. What happened was that every cheap PC turned into a high end studio with a good A/D card and a good microphone. The A/D card in a way is the equivalent to the camera, the microphone the equivalent to the lens. What most dropped - beside the computers - was the A/D card. It dropped from RED levels to 7D levels, then. From then on things became better, but not much cheaper anymore. There will always be a basic level of investment. (about 10k for a whole video equipment - the same like for a DVX a couple of years ago) IMO this price will stay constant but within two or three years we will be able to record with codecs equivalent to REDcode. So there are two ways to go: High upfront investment: Get a RED now and get the jobs that pay it. Or get a VDSLR and update it every year until you get the same or a similar quality as RED. I've choosen the latter one. Remember: If there is a BIG job you can always rent.
J Davis
Veteran
Going out on a limb here but I have a feeling that the vDSLR's are the industries way forward in competing with RED's scarlet. They will not die out they will grow and grow and once scarlet ships we will see ENG style cams like HVX with CMOS/MOS sensors, mounts for interchangeable lenses, good audio and Iframe codecs (or cineform raw). They may not beat redcode but they will compete on price points.
Last edited:
astigmatic
Well-known member
^ in a way.. i think canon vdslr's are just indicators of what's in store for their camcorder division. I can't wait to see what canon has in store for their XH-A1 replacement.
I love these (h)DSLR cameras just as much as everyone else. Still gonna ride the bleeding edge every time one with some salt comes out (aka Manual Controls and 24p).
I know that it's an awesome thing for budget purposes, I do implore those who have yet to experience RED from pre-to-post production spend some time reading unbiased information. It WILL be awesome as hell when we get a raw image from any of these cameras, sans line skipping etc etc... right now there's little comparison between REDCode and what we're getting out of (h)DSLR equipment.
Sure, it looks great on the web. Once you get these things into production environments that call for results in all areas, you start seeing quickly where Scarlet will still lead unless Canon and Panasonic make something pretty similar.
Also, no, there's no need for 5k in general. But there are vast benefits to being able to acquire an image at its native resolution, one being VFX. Another, asthe almight Barry Green mentioned somewhere else, is anamorphic acquisition so you achieve the highest resolution from the get-go before going to post.
Only scratching the surface with these cameras, I do hope to see some mmassive steps taken in the next year but let's not discount the validity of what RED offers in cameras (when they actually get released).
Until the 7D comes out, I'm back to shooting RED for everything, even though it's huge and all of that stuff it gets the job done without any of the issues present in the current crop and, hey, even the 7D.
Also, S16mm Film is becoming pretty popular around here (LA) with the price of Telecinie having gone down, camera rentals cheaper (thanks to RED) and stock advancements (i'm learning about this myself, lots of studying!), and being ale to go straight to a hard-drive with ProRes. 4:4:4:4 transfer from film? Yes please. No matter what digital camera you're using, it still really cannot touch the endless depth of fillm. S16 is a great in-between for cost and image.
I know that it's an awesome thing for budget purposes, I do implore those who have yet to experience RED from pre-to-post production spend some time reading unbiased information. It WILL be awesome as hell when we get a raw image from any of these cameras, sans line skipping etc etc... right now there's little comparison between REDCode and what we're getting out of (h)DSLR equipment.
Sure, it looks great on the web. Once you get these things into production environments that call for results in all areas, you start seeing quickly where Scarlet will still lead unless Canon and Panasonic make something pretty similar.
Also, no, there's no need for 5k in general. But there are vast benefits to being able to acquire an image at its native resolution, one being VFX. Another, asthe almight Barry Green mentioned somewhere else, is anamorphic acquisition so you achieve the highest resolution from the get-go before going to post.
Only scratching the surface with these cameras, I do hope to see some mmassive steps taken in the next year but let's not discount the validity of what RED offers in cameras (when they actually get released).
Until the 7D comes out, I'm back to shooting RED for everything, even though it's huge and all of that stuff it gets the job done without any of the issues present in the current crop and, hey, even the 7D.
Also, S16mm Film is becoming pretty popular around here (LA) with the price of Telecinie having gone down, camera rentals cheaper (thanks to RED) and stock advancements (i'm learning about this myself, lots of studying!), and being ale to go straight to a hard-drive with ProRes. 4:4:4:4 transfer from film? Yes please. No matter what digital camera you're using, it still really cannot touch the endless depth of fillm. S16 is a great in-between for cost and image.
Have you worked with REDCode Raw personally? Going through proper channels in post? The statement that Canon's H264 holds up pretty well compared to Raw is strange to me. It doesn't hold up nearly as well, especially for keying.
Advantages as far as resolution goes are obvious. An image derived from 3.5kish compressed to a 2k size will look absolutely more resolute on a massive screen (especially in wides) than an image downscaled poorly internally (aliasing, etc) projected on the same screen.
Even if everything's mastered @ 1080/2K, that certainly does not mean that 4K doesn't have its advantages. Its these very things that make RED look that much closer to film over other expensive cameras.
Now, none of that is to say that a 7D Projection will look bad by any means. It is what it is though, and it is not raw.
joe 1008
Veteran
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
But a 7D is good for an increased learning curb. You can shoot miles of footage without any costs...
- Status