Canon 7D killed my scarlet dreams!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Definitely. There will be rolling out a better camera every six months, now. This is evolution at its best. If I finally get good results from my compressor workflow I might stick some more time to my 5D, skip the 7D and get the next one that is to come.
 
zergtherobot said:
I also love how some border line school boy slander was posted by Jim on the RED site and was quickly removed when a few users pointed out the flaws in his logic. Don't get me wrong, I think RED is doing great things and Jim is definitely loyal to his customers, but the tables have turned.
Click to expand...
yeah.. that one came from akube (Bastaki) was tough..

"Dear Jim;

if i were in my lovely old college days.. doing my short flicks.. i'd get a 5dmk ii or a 7d.. I wanted shallow dof... cheap good looking glass... and lots of glasses to choose from...

i would never buy a scarlet or a red1 back then. and I would have continued to buy canon products for the consequent 4 years of college.

reason:

i would spend approx. 6k within those 4 years on lenses and upgrading cameras. in 4 years i'd upgrade twice. and a set of 3 prime lenses and a zoom and a decent tripod.

the red one costs 28k for a working kit.

scarlet s35 would cost 7k (brain only).

When you are an underdog... or a starter.. what keeps you going is the beleif that content is king.

canon is still the best bang for the buck (for the little guy) and not just the little guy...

i love my 5mkii... the whole 25 and 24p.. is overrated. i can do that in post when my entire edit is complete.

and for stills... well.. 21mp still smokes 5k... & 6k... and for timelapse purposes nothing beats the 5d mkii.

So... i am not at all annoyed. I think it is fair to pay 1k to 2k for a new canon (brain) every year or two."

the problem is.. more than the usual BS.. spec dreams but on the paper.. but on 3d renderings etc.. but always on delay.. subject to change is not a red trade mark.. it is a world spec
 
I think that if one could pre-order an s35 Scarlet at Adorama today for shipping in early October, a lot of people at the professional end of things would choose Scarlet for less compression, more latitude in post, better anti-aliasing and professional monitoring.

However, if you want to do a fair comparison, then you should compare the imaginary Scarlet with imaginary vDSLRs (or large sensor, photo-lens compatible camcorders) of the future of 2010 from Canon, Panny, Sony and even Nikon.

For instance, you should compare the fictional Scarlet with the fictional 7D mark II, including optional batterypack-like IO module with XLR audio inputs and uncompressed HD-SDI video output, 100 mbits Cineform-like codec, proper live view AF, quad core DIGICs for decent oversampling and all the expected software refinements (zebra, peaking, VU meters, waveform, vectorscope).

That's when it gets a *lot* tougher for Red.

And if any of these contenders can't get it right on the first try... say they forget manual controls... 30p only...or too much jello... or aliasing issue.... they'll just release another, better, cam 9 months later. In the meantime, they can sell Point & Shoots, plasma TVs, photocopiers, printers and blu-ray players to keep the cash flow going.

Red one was a success because these big companies couldn't be bothered with a market of a few hundred units worldwide.

However, the success of these early vDSLRs awoke the giants...

-X
 
First To Market is Key with the Scarlet

First To Market is Key with the Scarlet

I think the most important concept to understand in Canon winning the war is that of First to Market. Even if RED is better, Canon will sell a bundle before RED even hits, thus diminishing the ability to buy a superior camera. Coupled with the fact that a Scarlet and any footage (other than Izzy) has yet to appear in even prototype form on any forums, at any conventions or anywhere else for that matter, makes it much less viable as a successful lauch. Think of the Zune. I know many users who absolutely love it. The iPod came first and is an excellent product as well. Plain and simple.

Consider also that the RED forums have evolved into a pat Jim and his crew on the back party and you begin to wonder if the RED will ever appear. At some point they have to assume that it is at a build state that is financially viable and launch worthy.

Please Jim, get these prototypes in the hands of prosumers (actual professionals on budgets) and convince us all that the word Scarlet isn't referring to the color of sparkly shoes on Dorothy's feet.
 
filmmaker's gang said:
Dear Jim;

if i were in my lovely old college days.. doing my short flicks.. i'd get a 5dmk ii or a 7d.. I wanted shallow dof... cheap good looking glass... and lots of glasses to choose from...

i would never buy a scarlet or a red1 back then. and I would have continued to buy canon products for the consequent 4 years of college.

reason:

i would spend approx. 6k within those 4 years on lenses and upgrading cameras. in 4 years i'd upgrade twice. and a set of 3 prime lenses and a zoom and a decent tripod.

the red one costs 28k for a working kit.

scarlet s35 would cost 7k (brain only).

When you are an underdog... or a starter.. what keeps you going is the beleif that content is king.

canon is still the best bang for the buck (for the little guy) and not just the little guy...

i love my 5mkii... the whole 25 and 24p.. is overrated. i can do that in post when my entire edit is complete.

and for stills... well.. 21mp still smokes 5k... & 6k... and for timelapse purposes nothing beats the 5d mkii.

So... i am not at all annoyed. I think it is fair to pay 1k to 2k for a new canon (brain) every year or two.
Click to expand...

Video now is like audio seven years ago...
 
people forget just how important a thing redcode is. That's one place where there will be a clear distinction. RED has been doing great things with compression. As evidenced by RED Ray more recently. Redcode is one thing that I think sets them apart from the current competition in a big way.

Beyond that, all these VDSLR's are still terribly lacking (for me) in some very basic features and functionality that people used to not live without. Though, I do understand the price attraction.

FEature set, functionality, and codec are 3 big differences.

--

Though, I do find it kind of funny how people sing the death bell of cameras that are not even released yet, and that we know very little about as of now. We have no idea how much things have changed or not. Don't understand why people are always so eager to ring the bell for one camera or another every time a new one comes out.

There is a price to be paid for RAW, professional outputs, inputs, proper control, high speed sensor, etc, etc.

And, there are still vast differences between this camera and the little we do know about the dsmc line. Why does it always have to be one or the other? Still different tools for different people.

If i had a nickel for everytime someone proclaimed that x camera was dead, or x form factor was dead and they were wrong (or wayyyy premature)... I'd have an awful lot of nickels.

Just don't understand the war. And, personally... don't understand much of the comparison. One will have a much more professional feature set and function than the other, and there will be a price to pay for it. Just a matter of which tool will meet your needs.... or not.

Later,
Jaosn
 
joe 1008 said:
Definitely. There will be rolling out a better camera every six months, now. This is evolution at its best. If I finally get good results from my compressor workflow I might stick some more time to my 5D, skip the 7D and get the next one that is to come.
Click to expand...
This is what I thought too. First I thought about selling my 5D and buying 7D, then keeping the 5D and buying the 7D, but now that I've been thinking it a little bit more, I choosed to wait at least for the yearly next year to see all the new cameras that will come. I mean, I have killer FF still camera, thats half what I wanted from 5D, that's something 7D can never give. I have great HD video camera too. It has some flaws, but nothing that I couldn't live with at the moment.

Next generation video updates will likely include auto focus, at least 720p HDMI output while recording, flipable LCD screen, even less or zero jello and everything else better too in the IQ side + more. That is the camera I wan't. 7D made some great updates, and for video the sensor size is better than 5D's, but still, 7D isn't ready, I don't want another video camera that is "half good" and doesn't have those options I listed that will make the camera "perfect 1080p machine".

So, I will keep taking great pictures with my FF camera, shoot great videos and learn the secrets of HD video and different lenses with my 5D. At least when you learn to pull Follow Focus well with FF, it will be walk in the park with crop camera :) I'm going to buy some L quality lenses instead, lenses that can be used for the next 5 years easily, and lenses that I can use with the next generation crop HD DSLR.

just my 212 cents.
 
Last edited:
"Now, I'm not attacking any person on these forums when I call Scarlet vaproware. BUT IT IS BY DEFINITION (wikipedia atleast) VAPORWARE. Why? Because that's how this product is marketed, it is not illegal but is prickish at the very least."

Amern. I have been saying this for at least a year and have been admonished by many RED fanboys. But I still stand by it.

RED is an exciting company but their foot dragging and hyperbole has lost them millions of dollars of sales and marketing momentum as well as they (as a company, not the RED One) have become known as a bit of punchline by many working DPs.

Dan
 
Coming from video with small CCD's it was all about learning lenses and dof.
Balancing ISO, aperture and ND's.

Scarlet was supposed to do that for me but it ended up being the GH1.

Will I still buy a scarlet? Definitely. Redcode is fast becoming an industry standard
and once these little red cams ship producers will expect redcode delivery more and more.
 
Hi J:

"Redcode is fast becoming an industry standard"

In which industry? I am on the LA Producer Group and I see bewildered posts constantly about what is this RED stuff, how does it work and who in the heck can post it? Maybe in the indie film world it is becoming somewhat of a standard, but in the studio system and in LA, VERY few producers have a clue about it and shooting RED code has been an extreme PITA in the two projects I have used it on.

Give me AVCINTRA 100 any day over RED code. The RED workflow is what I least like about RED cameras.

Dan
 
puredrifting said:
Hi J:

"Redcode is fast becoming an industry standard"

In which industry? I am on the LA Producer Group and I see bewildered posts constantly about what is this RED stuff, how does it work and who in the heck can post it? Maybe in the indie film world it is becoming somewhat of a standard, but in the studio system and in LA, VERY few producers have a clue about it and shooting RED code has been an extreme PITA in the two projects I have used it on.

Give me AVCINTRA 100 any day over RED code. The RED workflow is what I least like about RED cameras.

Dan
Click to expand...

I work in advertising here in New York.
For the past year nearly every shoot I've seen has been RED. The exceptions were 5DM2's. Thats the industry I'm talking about.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top