Canon 70d Has Aliasing Moire

Some update about the 70D...
I can confirm it is at least one stop cleaner than the previous crops, maybe even a little more, but I ll be sure, when I ll make a side by side with my 600D...I ll put the 5D3 in the game too, just for reference, we all know the difference will be huge!
Kostas...any AF lens will work but STMs will be MUCH better...I only tried the camera so far with the 18-55 STM which is SUPER smooth, fast and silent and a SIGMA 17-70 which is SUPER slow and noisy...! Anyway Im sure there are many better non STM lenses out there that will work just fine. In the next days I ll be able to test a few lenses (sigma 18-50, canon 50, canon 85, canon 24-70, canon 70-200)
Travis...thanks for the info...I have one more question, how is the new sigma 18-35 with the 70D in terms of noise? Do you hear the motor when AF is working? I REALLY want that lens, but I think I ll have to buy it without testing it first, so Im gathering all the info I can get!
Policar...Im sorry to say but there is not any noticeable improvement in image quality over the previous models...
 
lyrov said:
Some update about the 70D...
I can confirm it is at least one stop cleaner than the previous crops, maybe even a little more, but I ll be sure, when I ll make a side by side with my 600D...I ll put the 5D3 in the game too, just for reference, we all know the difference will be huge!
Kostas...any AF lens will work but STMs will be MUCH better...I only tried the camera so far with the 18-55 STM which is SUPER smooth, fast and silent and a SIGMA 17-70 which is SUPER slow and noisy...! Anyway Im sure there are many better non STM lenses out there that will work just fine. In the next days I ll be able to test a few lenses (sigma 18-50, canon 50, canon 85, canon 24-70, canon 70-200)
Travis...thanks for the info...I have one more question, how is the new sigma 18-35 with the 70D in terms of noise? Do you hear the motor when AF is working? I REALLY want that lens, but I think I ll have to buy it without testing it first, so Im gathering all the info I can get!
Policar...Im sorry to say but there is not any noticeable improvement in image quality over the previous models...
Click to expand...
I just bought the 70D for special run and gun applications. So my limited report is...

It does alias slightly but is much better than what we are used to. Colored roof tiles will still exhibit some moire. Its not life or death but if you are used to HDslr shooting you will be fine with the amounts of aliasing and moire. It's not 5dMK3 clean but its definatly not canon T2i ugly.

THe auto focus (which is why I bought this camera) just plain ROCKS. It works with all lenses but is best with the STM lenses. It works and it works really well. If you are an event shooter and need AF, this camera is for you.
While I was buying the camera I did put the Sigma 18-35 on it to see how well that lens worked. From my 5 minutes playing in the store I would say it works really nice.
More playing with this camera and I will drop notes as I find them. So far I'm pretty happy with it. I understand it's a step back from my C100 but I did want a camera that can handle single user AF possibilities for difficult tracking shots.
 
dustylense said:
I just bought the 70D for special run and gun applications. So my limited report is...

It does alias slightly but is much better than what we are used to. Colored roof tiles will still exhibit some moire. Its not life or death but if you are used to HDslr shooting you will be fine with the amounts of aliasing and moire. It's not 5dMK3 clean but its definatly not canon T2i ugly.
Click to expand...

So if is not so bad , what do you think about this

 
Felipe Henao said:
So if is not so bad , what do you think about this

Click to expand...
What do I think? I think I would avoid that type of shot with that type of camera knowing that that type of aliasing WILL happen. I too filmed a red tile roof across the street which I use for moire aliasing tests and I have to say, my test are not as bad as yours is. That is why I would grab my C100 for that shot.
And please keep in mind that the camera is STILL designed and optimized for STILLS photography. It just so happens to have an awesome AF live view feature.
 
Hey Dustylense, is not my shot, it was posted at Vimeo by another user. I'm just after an APS-C Canon Camera Moire free, because that has become a pain in the neck ,
Usually what I do is to record with a 7D or T5i and when can see Aliasing Moire, change to a formal video camera.
When I said what do you think is in other words is can you show your test, or is it as bad as previous models, I know you said not as bad, but people over the internet
is saying is just the same. Have you check how Moire free is Nikon 7100-5200 or Lumix G6 ? So technology is there but Canon decided that is a C100-300 Feature.
The worst of all is people however buy the camera with the same problem, which is the greatest problem a video camera can have.
Lets see it this way Canon marketing says Now we give you a better auto focus system ( BY THE WAY nothing replaces a good manual focus pull ), 1 stop better low light
performance, and you Canon Customers give us your money for a body with the worst defect a camera can have, and as soon as we release a camera with a headphone jack but with Moire
put in the trash the 70D body ( Say $ 400 ), and then after 3 more years finally a Moire free.
Just see your C100 I bet you want a C100 with dual pixel sensor and continuous focus, but what? you bought a Moire generator toy 70D, + a C100 so you will soon
sell both to buy the C100B that will track just like the 70D but without Moire aliasing, AND THE WORST this was all planed 5 years ago back in 2009.
 
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Felipe Henao said:
Hey Dustylense, is not my shot, it was posted at Vimeo by another user. I'm just after an APS-C Canon Camera Moire free, because that has become a pain in the neck ,
Usually what I do is to record with a 7D or T5i and when can see Aliasing Moire, change to a formal video camera.
When I said what do you think is in other words is can you show your test, or is it as bad as previous models, I know you said not as bad, but people over the internet
is saying is just the same. Have you check how Moire free is Nikon 7100-5200 or Lumix G6 ? So technology is there but Canon decided that is a C100-300 Feature.
The worst of all is people however buy the camera with the same problem, which is the greatest problem a video camera can have.
Lets see it this way Canon marketing says Now we give you a better auto focus system ( BY THE WAY nothing replaces a good manual focus pull ), 1 stop better low light
performance, and you Canon Customers give us your money for a body with the worst defect a camera can have, and as soon as we release a camera with a headphone jack but with Moire
put in the trash the 70D body ( Say $ 400 ), and then after 3 more years finally a Moire free.
Just see your C100 I bet you want a C100 with dual pixel sensor and continuous focus, but what? you bought a Moire generator toy 70D, + a C100 so you will soon
sell both to buy the C100B that will track just like the 70D but without Moire aliasing, AND THE WORST this was all planed 5 years ago back in 2009.
Click to expand...

So what if that is the plan. If they release a C200 with dual pixel technology I would do as you say and sell both the C100 and 70D for it. Then I will continue making money with the C200. Even if Canon was water boarded into admitting it was the plan all along, I would still by that C200. Why? Because I have $20,000 in EOS glass. I happen to like Canon. Have for 20 years.

As I said, I bought the 70D for its AF tech for either difficult run and gun or specialty shots like long focal length steadicam work and such. I knew it would have moire in roofs. I knew with would alias thin white lines on black. It's a stills camera with video mode. It just so happens to have awesome AF capabilities. It's tracking focus better than my 1/3in chip camera. On top of that, it can be my fun camera for family and travel.

I've only had the camera for about 4 hours. I did a test on my steadicam with the kit lens at 50mm's. Pretty long throw for steadicam shooting. It NAILED focus!!! It was right on the money. Like 100% perfect focus the whole way through. Just that made me think I got my monies worth.

THe 70D is not and never will be my A camera. But I really wanted a large chip camera that does well with AF. I have that now.

The bottom line is there is NEVER going to be the perfect camera. Especially a video camera that is really designed for still photography. I had the Gh2, the Gh3. They're great cameras. Why would I look at the Nikons when I have $20,000 in Eos glass. If I need the moire free camera I have that in my C100. If I need a large chip camera for a tracking AF shot, I have that in the 70D. Both will make me money. Both have their use and purpose.
 
Ok but how about if your 70D for steady cam nails focus on a Moire pattern ?
There are news for you Canon will Release an upgrade for the C500, ADDING SUPPORT FOR THE 18-135 STM AND CONTINOUS AUTOFOCUS, I'm sorry your C100 is obsolete now.
But great now you have a C100 + a 70D that nails focus, on every Moire pattern.
You invested a lot in Canon glass, me too. but lets be real Nikon is giving more for less , Lumix G6 has less Moire than GH3, and better performance than GH2.
Personally will not invest C100-300, kind of money when is clear with the mentioned upgrade that Canon will make STM Glass and dual pixel technology the daily cameras feature.
BUT for the C500, So devaluation your 20.000 glass to 2000 if God saves you. God bless America, making Japan Wealthier . Amen .
 
Felipe Henao said:
Ok but how about if your 70D for steady cam nails focus on a Moire pattern ?
There are news for you Canon will Release an upgrade for the C500, ADDING SUPPORT FOR THE 18-135 STM AND CONTINOUS AUTOFOCUS, I'm sorry your C100 is obsolete now.
But great now you have a C100 + a 70D that nails focus, on every Moire pattern.
You invested a lot in Canon glass, me too. but lets be real Nikon is giving more for less , Lumix G6 has less Moire than GH3, and better performance than GH2.
Personally will not invest C100-300, kind of money when is clear with the mentioned upgrade that Canon will make STM Glass and dual pixel technology the daily cameras feature.
BUT for the C500, So devaluation your 20.000 glass to 2000 if God saves you. God bless America, making Japan Wealthier . Amen .
Click to expand...

LOL! C100 obsolete? Because the C500 will get auto focus? LOL! The C100 already got the firmware update for Auto Focus. Where have you been? That was like 2 months ago. That feature is coming to the C300 and C500 in Dec. LOL. Obsolete?

Why are you so mad at Canon? If you don't like canon products, go buy the camera you think you need. I'm here to report my feedback to users interested in the 70D. I will put my two cents on where the camera will win and fail. Lots of people here understand that i'm bluntly honest.

ANd finally...I'm a working pro. Even if all my $20,000 of Eos glass was stolen right now, it's been a $68,000 month for me in sales. Next month is targeted to be better. I'm booked solidly until Nov. I just got done shooting 27 hours straight with two 2 hour naps and shot over labor day. Maybe I could take some of that and buy a Nikon, or a Lumix G6???? But I won't. I use and like canon. Whether you think they are obsolete, overpriced, or take horrible pictures (people take pictures, not cameras). I have a complete eco-system now. 2 5dmk3's primarily for stills shooting (70% of my work), 2 MK2's, C100, XF100, and now the 70D. Just screwdrivers and hammers. WHy on earth should I look at selling it all for a Nikon system or a G6? Oh, thats right, because the C500 has AF and the C100 doesn't and is obsolete according to you! LOL!

Do us people interested in the 70D as a tool.... Go buy your G6.

And I don't have a problem helping Japan out economically. Oh, did I mention my BMC nailed the moire shots too?????
 
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Cool, 1- If you make 68.000 at month why did you buy the cheapest cinema camera ?
2- C500 upgrade is not autofocus is continuous servo focus and support for STM lenses
3- Yes Canon DSLR Cameras are great Still cameras, I could not be happier with them for stills.
4- Will not buy the G6 because despite is a very clean image bit rate is too low 28 mbs
5- Help Japan but Japan will not help you, I only buy if is worth no matter where comes from.
6- I'll wait for the 7DII this upgrade was not what I spectated

AND Bye Bye, I'll be visiting NYC Tomorrow and will have a lot of shopping to do.

This a recording please leave your message, I'll get back to you in 30 days. Felipe
 
Felipe Henao said:
Cool, 1- If you make 68.000 at month why did you buy the cheapest cinema camera ?
2- C500 upgrade is not autofocus is continuous servo focus and support for STM lenses
3- Yes Canon DSLR Cameras are great Still cameras, I could not be happier with them for stills.
4- Will not buy the G6 because despite is a very clean image bit rate is too low 28 mbs
5- Help Japan but Japan will not help you, I only buy if is worth no matter where comes from.
6- I'll wait for the 7DII this upgrade was not what I spectated

AND Bye Bye, I'll be visiting NYC Tomorrow and will have a lot of shopping to do.

This a recording please leave your message, I'll get back to you in 30 days. Felipe
Click to expand...

Because it's the only large chip camera that auto focuses worth a crap.
I bought the C100 because it's the C300 when you attach a recorder. It's light, its fast, and it makes a great image. If I need bigger and badder, I'll rent it.
What, should I buy an Alexa? Again, my income is 70% stills and 30% video work. Corporate stuff mostly on the video side. What do I need a $25,000 camera for to do corporate shoots? (See, the difference in that $25,000 and the $6000 for the C100 went right into investments and retirement fund). SO out of that fund, I can afford to splurge on a 70d and not sweat it. The camera will pay itself off by the end of the week anyway.

Not to brag... But in the last month I have bought the Defy G5, the Litepanels Sola 6, another laptop just to capture images on tethered (its only job) , the 70D, and maybe later this week the Sigma 18-35 ALL IN CASH. I made all that money with canon products. So while I'm not defending Canon, I will say that IF you have the right head on your shoulders, it really doesn't matter what camera you use, like or hate. My point is, there is NO CAMERA THAT WILL MAKE YOU SUCCESSFUL. That is up to you and your work ethic and the personal relationships you build with your clients. They care less what camera you have as long as the work you hand over suits their needs.

You worry too much. Like I said, I bought the 70D KNOWING it would have it. And it does. ANd I don't regret buying the camera because I know that for this or that shot, the autofocus might save the day. Call it a special paint brush.
THe C100 already has CONTINUAL SERVO FOCUS WITH THE STM LENS....
 
hey,

sorry to be provocative, im checking this thread daily as i think the 70d is a really exciting camera.. Personally Im super happy with canons non earth shattering, incremental updates strategy, it should mean that in about a year or so from now we'll have the perfect camera for a very small investment With revolutionary AF, the crop mode back, flipscreen and promise of 720p continuous RAW shooting sometime soon via magic lantern sounds pretty great to me! Ive been swapping my canon bodies at least once a year since the 7d and am super happy..

Anyway, what i wanted to say is Felipe, dont get too caught up with the moire, and please dont take offence but looking at your videos from your vimeo page it seems any limitations of the technology may be a little ahead of what you need to worry about, I would honestly spend some time improving your skills with what you have, or with the 70d or any other DSLR. For example, friendly suggestion would be try not to zoom in every shot, it is quite a hallmark of amateur shooters.

Anyway, I just noticed a lot recently around forums for example now everyone is all about RAW, how h.264 is simply not good enough but when you see their videos they have so much more to work on before worrying about limitations of h.264, for example.. (i must say also a little silly to resort to quoting how much money we make as a sign of how professional we are, sorry!)

Would be great if this thread could focus on the 70d itself, we know theres moire and aliasing the same as or almost as bad as previous versions so can we maybe move on to other points..
 
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animanus said:
hey,

sorry to be provocative, im checking this thread daily as i think the 70d is a really exciting camera.. Personally Im super happy with canons non earth shattering, incremental updates strategy, it should mean that in about a year or so from now we'll have the perfect camera for a very small investment With revolutionary AF, the crop mode back, flipscreen and promise of 720p continuous RAW shooting sometime soon via magic lantern sounds pretty great to me! Ive been swapping my canon bodies at least once a year since the 7d and am super happy..

Anyway, what i wanted to say is Felipe, dont get too caught up with the moire, and please dont take offence but looking at your videos from your vimeo page it seems any limitations of the technology may be a little ahead of what you need to worry about, I would honestly spend some time improving your skills with what you have, or with the 70d or any other DSLR. For example your pans are a little shaky so maybe look into investing in a new tripod before a new camera, and just a friendly suggestion, try not to zoom in every shot, it is quite a hallmark of amateur shooters.

Anyway, I just noticed a lot recently around forums for example now everyone is all about RAW, how h.264 is simply not good enough but when you see their videos they have so much more to work on before worrying about limitations of h.264, for example.. (i must say also a little silly to resort to quoting how much money we make as a sign of how professional we are, sorry!)

Would be great if this thread could focus on the 70d itself, we know theres moire and aliasing the same as or almost as bad as previous versions so can we maybe move on to other points..
Click to expand...
Yes, other points like the awesome AF feature in it. Oh yeah, and it's a pretty good stills camera too!
And, I'm just as professional as anybody here is or can be. I used it as example to say that while in the past 8 months I've owned the BMC, the C100 and now the 70D. Each and every camera made income one way or another. Each and every one does something the other can't. It's not to gloat. Its to use as example saying that all of todays cameras can make you money if you forget certain specs for a second and use each camera to their potential. Again, I bought the 70D exclusively for it's AF performance in run and gun situations or a specialty shot where follow focus is just a pain in a low level production. I think I found that camera in the 70D. For everything else I have the C100 or I rent the camera needed. And if the 70D does in fact not do as I hope it will, I have one awesome family holiday camera....I just tested some stills shots and it's really really quite nice.
 
dustylense said:
all of todays cameras can make you money .
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Yes they do. I love Canons. I just shot 4 more days on a race track with my obsolete 60D and soon to be obsolete 600D with the 3x crop.
These cameras never quit. The rubber came off the 60D last year so I figured I can't get much if I sell it anyway. They pretty much pay for themselves once over every day out on a job.
I shot 140gb of footage, interviews of drivers with shirts and no moire.The only shot I saw moire was a screen on the side of the podium. One shot out of thousands.
I don't understand where all the complaining is coming from. If a shot doesn't work don't shoot it. It's all good.
BTW I don't think roof tiles will look good with no moire either. and I love the music on that video clip, perfect.
 
ROCKMORE said:
Yes they do. I love Canons. I just shot 4 more days on a race track with my obsolete 60D and soon to be obsolete 600D with the 3x crop.
These cameras never quit. The rubber came off the 60D last year so I figured I can't get much if I sell it anyway. They pretty much pay for themselves once over every day out on a job.
I shot 140gb of footage, interviews of drivers with shirts and no moire.The only shot I saw moire was a screen on the side of the podium. One shot out of thousands.
I don't understand where all the complaining is coming from. If a shot doesn't work don't shoot it. It's all good.
BTW I don't think roof tiles will look good with no moire either. and I love the music on that video clip, perfect.
Click to expand...
+1. A man and his cameras, makin dough! Not worried about all the hype and just gets his job done and in the can and to the bank!
 
The Jon Carson Vimeo video makes the 70D moire look worse than it probably is because it's not full resolution. It would be nice if he could enable the Vimeo download feature so that we could judge the full resolution video.

i.e. Assuming he shot at 1080p, then make the 1080p original downloadable
 
dustylense said:
I just bought the 70D for special run and gun applications. So my limited report is...

It does alias slightly but is much better than what we are used to. Colored roof tiles will still exhibit some moire. Its not life or death but if you are used to HDslr shooting you will be fine with the amounts of aliasing and moire. It's not 5dMK3 clean but its definatly not canon T2i ugly.

THe auto focus (which is why I bought this camera) just plain ROCKS. It works with all lenses but is best with the STM lenses. It works and it works really well. If you are an event shooter and need AF, this camera is for you.
While I was buying the camera I did put the Sigma 18-35 on it to see how well that lens worked. From my 5 minutes playing in the store I would say it works really nice.
More playing with this camera and I will drop notes as I find them. So far I'm pretty happy with it. I understand it's a step back from my C100 but I did want a camera that can handle single user AF possibilities for difficult tracking shots.
Click to expand...

When I first saw demos of the 70D's DPAF, I was thinking this might work great for steadicam use. Thanks for the hands on report! Which steadicam do you use with it?
 
Right now I'm riding along on a tour for judging new homes in a sales and marketing program. I'm using only the 70d with 18-135 STM kit and a glidecam hd 2000. I'm putting the camera in AF mode full time and even auto iso here and there. I'm going true run and gun and testing this cameras AF in a very fast paced tour. Ingesting media on the go so ill check back in. But so far from the first site, the footage I looked at looks in focus. The camera is doing its job.
 
dustylense said:
+1. A man and his cameras, makin dough! Not worried about all the hype and just gets his job done and in the can and to the bank!
Click to expand...

It would be nice if the resolution was a little better, but as long as the clients keeps paying it will be OK for now. I shoot with 2 cameras so what ever I upgrade to will have to be X2.
 
the moire is really bad. I did a bunch of test shots at work. One co-worker's shirt was lit up like christmas tree. It is the worst moire that I have seen on an slr.

The aliasing was also very noticeable throughout the image on hair, glasses, etc. To me eye, it is worse than the 7d and Rebels.

It is sad, because the autofocus is remarkable and truly exciting. I really wanted this to be usable for professional application, but if this is the case, there is no way I could do that.
 
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