Canon 4K
- Thread starter Seven11
- Start date
G
Guest
Guest
I assume nothing this year. but 2015 for sure. They have to revamp their sensors, since Nikon/Sony/Red/Arri/Fuji all have great stuff. The 1D-C lowlight is amazing, but buzz words sell cameras, and 4k and 14stops DR are the new buzz words, similar to how clean 1600iso and HD used to be.
Ebrahim Saadawi
Carbonite Member
That's not how these big companies operate. They don't HAVE to be the "coolest" and "trendy-est- to attract customers, thus they take their time developing the product, making them a bit late to the game compared to the companies that have to be the coolest to sell anything. But, when they do deliver the product, they deliver something way beyond amazing. Canon has never released a camera that hasn't been a workhorse and almost the best in the map. So no they will not make a lowbudget 4k camera this year. Though I wish they would do!
We will see a couple of new DSLRs though, starting with the 7D, which will surpass the 5D and is a great 1080p camera.
We will see a couple of new DSLRs though, starting with the 7D, which will surpass the 5D and is a great 1080p camera.
simonpwood
Well-known member
I reckon this is true for many people, including myself, that have invested in Canon lenses, and can't stomach the thought of losing Full Frame, losing S35, and getting that mutant Panasonic sensor size.
But the GH4 is looking like it will be a winner on all counts.
roxics
Veteran
You're kidding right? Canon is far from the best in terms of quality.
G
Guest
Guest
A bit of a stretch there. Depends on what you mean by "amazing". For example, the 1DC is somewhat amazing, but not quite. ANd definitely not perfect. They locked the video into 8bit H.264 video, when the buffer and cards can handle more with HD (perhaps it cannot encode 10bit efficiently). Plus there has been a couple issues with the Auto focus (not a function I use too often, but that is what I have read.)
The 7d/60d/t2i run was pretty mediocre. Nikon was mostly out performing these in what they were made for: photography. The 60D was perhaps a happy accident, though the video was rather blocky and boring.
While the noise reduction is amazing on the 1DC, the dynamic range is would more accurately be described as "good", compared to competition. The Nikon/Sony/Arri/Red/BMC and maybe a few others are "amazing".
Canon has "solid" products. They rarely are that "amazing". And they do release products with defects and issues, both known and unknown, at times.
The C300 range was cool, but the body design was overhyped. It looked cool, but added little to the game. Plus they reused the digicDV and kept the camera at 8bit. Not too mention, the lowlight ability of the cameras was over blown as well. iso levels were darker than the competition. 1DC has been very solid on lowlight, right there with the D4/D4s, but the D4s also has over 13 stops dynamic range. The 14fps on the 1DC is amazing...... but... take the mirror out and you could be getting higher burst rates for less complication, more reliability, silent, and cheaper.... 1DX burst rate is an amazing engineering feat, but not top of the pile in function or possibility.
You can look up the issues that are associated with some of their products. Red and BMC are pushing the boundaries, and learning as they go... so when they mess up, it is part of the deal. Canon, Panny, Sony, Nikon, Arri all have different business model, and the two types should not be compared. A BMC exploding, does not mean Canon is amazing. It means, people are paying for getting products that are at the edge of what is possible for cheap... spells it out. There will be corners cut, but that is what those customers are wanting.... the now, and no frills. As BMC matures, they will be awesome, but they are new to the game.
But Canon has been good. The customer service and support has been great for me. I really appreciate how they have handled some of the issues I have had. The 1DC was a bit over priced, but it was the first and still only commercially available 4K dslr. And, remarkably, for those that own it, it is still the best looking DSLR, and the only one with a LOG color profile, and a robust codec (despite being MJPEG, it is still the best I have seen from any DSLR). We'll see how Sony A7s fares in comparison. The sensor on the A7s looks to be spectacular, if they add a nice picture style, it could undo the 1DC in place of number 1.
Last edited:
joe1946
Veteran
Why did Canon offer a $2,000 rebate on the 1D C the other day ? Was it because of the $1,699 4K GH4 or the 12mp 4K full frame Sony A7s ?
Apefos Adapter
Well-known member
What Canon needs to do now to compete is to release a version of EOS-M mirrorless with 3840 x 2560 sensor, 9.8 megapixel for photo and UHD video with same sensor technology from 70D, improved low light and dual pixel AF with the same log Dynamic Range as Sony did, recording UHD to the sd card or recording FHD. Price under 1000 usd (dream?). People wants to use all kind of lenses, not just proprietary lenses... so a expensive 4k 5D Mark IV would not be perfect for competition.
Samuel H
Major Contributor
^ except: canon can't even produce the same DR for RAW stills, let alone be willing to add a log profile so it's available for video
If they could create a 5D4 with the same DR as Sony/Nikon DSLRs in RAW stills, and which could still record RAW video through ML, then it would be a contender. Major technological issue, though.
If they could create a 5D4 with the same DR as Sony/Nikon DSLRs in RAW stills, and which could still record RAW video through ML, then it would be a contender. Major technological issue, though.
Agree,on color alone i have yet to see the equal from current 4K cams.But living without a viewfinder is one big pain.
Samuel H
Major Contributor
Two problems with nikon:
* they don't sell TVs, so they're not as invested in 4K as Panasonic and Sony
* their mirrorless system is a joke
That's why I don't expect them to bring out the camera I want (a mirrorless D5300 shooting 1080p RAW), even less one that also has 4K
* they don't sell TVs, so they're not as invested in 4K as Panasonic and Sony
* their mirrorless system is a joke
That's why I don't expect them to bring out the camera I want (a mirrorless D5300 shooting 1080p RAW), even less one that also has 4K
Last edited:
BobbyMurcerFan
Well-known member
Nikon gets their sensors from Sony. So I don't they will ever do anything to threaten Sony. It seems like there is a tacit agreement that Nikon goes after the stills market and Sony after the video market--with some overlap of course.
Samuel H
Major Contributor
Nikon uses sensors from many sources:
* D4: sensor is a Nikon design manufactured by Renesas
* D800: Sony sensor, but Nikon had something to do in designing it (not sure how much)
* D600: Sony sensor
* D7000: Sony sensor
* D5200: Toshiba sensor
* D3200: sensor is a Nikon design manufactured by Renesas
* 1-series: Aptina sensor
They probably don't want to annoy Sony, but it's not like their life depends on it.
* D4: sensor is a Nikon design manufactured by Renesas
* D800: Sony sensor, but Nikon had something to do in designing it (not sure how much)
* D600: Sony sensor
* D7000: Sony sensor
* D5200: Toshiba sensor
* D3200: sensor is a Nikon design manufactured by Renesas
* 1-series: Aptina sensor
They probably don't want to annoy Sony, but it's not like their life depends on it.
BobbyMurcerFan
Well-known member
FWIU, Sony and Toshiba are the same company when it comes to sensors, as Sony owns Toshiba's fab plants.
Michael Carter
Veteran
Everyone here assumes the major DSLR makers are, I dunno, reading every forum post here and somehow still disappointing us. I'd guess pro level DSLR video isn't a big enough chunk of the market for them to jump through all the hoops we want. They're trying to please hobbyists and soccer moms on the low end and professional still shooters on the high end.
At least Canon and Panasonic are in the video market with dedicated cameras, where Nikon's a stills company. So you see some technology shifting across product lines at least. Yet Nikon's current DSLR IQ is really nice, which makes me think it's a happy accident from still-land.
The GH4 is pretty mind blowing though - it seems to have been developed with 90% of the R&D focused on DSLR video. For a video company, it's very strange to see all of that 4K and high frame rate tech go into a small-size DSLR body (yet no raw... maybe that's coming in firmware sometime). Maybe they see it as a test platform, or maybe the price point means they'll make a ton of profit from it.
Very odd to see the 3 big players in the DSLR video market with such differing approaches to what's been historically an add-on (D90 team: "hey, can we get the live view stream onto the card?" and thus it all began). Canon gives us viable raw (but only at the very top end), Nikon nice IQ but in many cases no aperture control, and Panasonic just drops some amazing capability that has totally overshadowed the GH4 as a stills camera - when they could have put all of that into an affordable C100 killer (real video camera form factor w/ XLRs and no YAGHI needed) or something similar.
At least Canon and Panasonic are in the video market with dedicated cameras, where Nikon's a stills company. So you see some technology shifting across product lines at least. Yet Nikon's current DSLR IQ is really nice, which makes me think it's a happy accident from still-land.
The GH4 is pretty mind blowing though - it seems to have been developed with 90% of the R&D focused on DSLR video. For a video company, it's very strange to see all of that 4K and high frame rate tech go into a small-size DSLR body (yet no raw... maybe that's coming in firmware sometime). Maybe they see it as a test platform, or maybe the price point means they'll make a ton of profit from it.
Very odd to see the 3 big players in the DSLR video market with such differing approaches to what's been historically an add-on (D90 team: "hey, can we get the live view stream onto the card?" and thus it all began). Canon gives us viable raw (but only at the very top end), Nikon nice IQ but in many cases no aperture control, and Panasonic just drops some amazing capability that has totally overshadowed the GH4 as a stills camera - when they could have put all of that into an affordable C100 killer (real video camera form factor w/ XLRs and no YAGHI needed) or something similar.
Samuel H
Major Contributor
@BobbyMurcerFan
Toshiba designs its own sensors, and manufactures them at Sony fabs, which Sony bought from Toshiba. Even if they have an agreement that for X years Toshiba will use those fabs, it's far from being the same company.
@Michael Carter
Actually I think we're doing fine: progress could be faster, but it is not slow by any means. Disruptive companies (BlackMagic, GoPro) are shaking the market, and, from the bottom up, sensor makers are desperate for design wins, with high-end models representing a much bigger chunk of the pie in revenue than in units (globally, DSLR sensors are 2% of units but 37% of revenue: here this).
Toshiba designs its own sensors, and manufactures them at Sony fabs, which Sony bought from Toshiba. Even if they have an agreement that for X years Toshiba will use those fabs, it's far from being the same company.
@Michael Carter
Actually I think we're doing fine: progress could be faster, but it is not slow by any means. Disruptive companies (BlackMagic, GoPro) are shaking the market, and, from the bottom up, sensor makers are desperate for design wins, with high-end models representing a much bigger chunk of the pie in revenue than in units (globally, DSLR sensors are 2% of units but 37% of revenue: here this).