C500: C500 and The Atomos Shogun

ollywood88

ollywood88

Well-known member
Hi All,

I have made a few posts recently about buying a used C500 due to how good the price is.

I currently use a c100, I want to move into the 4k realm now for larger projects. I was looking at the drives as the 7q is the flagship but the drives can get pricey.

I was looking at the shogun and was wondering what people thought of this as a recorder I know it can't do high frame rates is this in 1080p too?

The drives are a lot cheaper, but just wanted to hear peoples thoughts.

In terms of editing too I have an iMac with Internal HDD but its an I7 32GB ram will this be quick enough or will I need to upgrade this?

Thanks
 
I'd forget about the original Shogun, and look at the Odyssey 7Q+ instead. From memory the Shogun can do 1080p120 over HDMI only (not SDI), but I'm not too sure too many cams can even send that over HDMI anyway. The A7sII for example, which shoots 1080p120, is limited to 60p over HDMI so you're stuck with internal recording for slow motion above 60p.

Even the new Shogun Inferno seems to be limited to 24p/30p recording with C500 4K, though it's very hard to tell from the website, so until we get real world reviews we won't know much with certainty.
 
Thanks, Just the prices of the drives on the 7Q, so expensive. I am sure the shogun can do 4k pro res fine with c500 just not HFR there nothing much on their site.
 
I want to do the same thing! Shogun Inferno looks significantly less money for me than the Odyssey 7Q+ and has the functionality I need. I already have some elements (batteries, cards etc...) for the Inferno so this eats into the price and CDNG at 4k, 10 bit ProRes at 4k etc... look exactly what I need.
 
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Thank you, Didn't know that that is a lot better too and worth it now. Shogun Is being discounted too I think.
 
Atomos tweeted this to me, today: All our shogun products support canon RAW 4k30p in 4:2:2 10bit recording to ProRes.Further developments to come Inc RAW to CDNG

This is enough for me at this stage so I'm going to buy. I have the SSDs, batteries and the purchase price is lower, especially as I do not have to buy any additional updates. I'm good with the Inferno. Will keep you posted when it arrives.
 
The base Odyssey 7Q+ currently does everything the Shogun Inferno offers (and more) in terms of formats at $200 less ($1800 vs $2000). The Odyssey also does 4K ProRes 4:2:2 HQ/LT up to 30P and it even gives you the 2K RGB mode in DPX files, all without the RAW upgrade. Also, Odyssey's RAW package supports Canon's native Cinema RAW RMF files, which the Shogun Inferno will not. To maximize your C500's potential, you're going to need the Odyssey at some point, unless you have access to a Codex recorder. And this is to say nothing of the HFR RAW recording in 4K 60P and 4K x 1K 120P HRAW, neither one of which will be supported by Atomos as it cannot record onto two SSDs simultaneously.
 
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Don't know if the C500 can do it, but for 4K 60p the recommended drives for the Shogun Inferno are pretty much the same as for the Odyssey 7Q so if you intend to shoot that the drive cost is the same.
 
Hey Mitch @ CD,

I am on the fence between the Inferno and the 7Q+

I am finding all the Atomos asterisks and the CD pages to be a tad cryptic. I think I get it, but would like the most up to date info.

What exactly can the 7Q+ do out of the box no paid software with the C500 at this moment in time? 4k, 2k, FPS, ProRes

I really love the false colors of Atomos & 4k ProRes up to 30p would be the bulk of my needs for this camera and this point. But the right record options and future abilities are important to me.

Thank you Mitch. I appreciate your time!

Best Regards,

Chris

www.pulsecinema.com
 
Odyssey7Q+ and the C500. The following are the possible recording formats with this particular camera.

Odyssey7Q+ (without RAW Bundle option):
2K/HD 12-bit ProRes 4444 or 4444(XQ) up to 60p
2K/HD 10-bit ProRes 4444 or 4444(XQ) up to 60p
2K/HD 12-bit Uncompressed DPX 444 up to 60p
2K/HD 10-bit Uncompressed DPX 444 up to 60p
HD 10-bit ProRes 422 (HQ/422/LT/Proxy) up to 60p

Odyssey7Q+ (with RAW Bundle)
All of the above
4K/UHD RAW up to 60p
4K "half RAW" up to 120p
4K/UHD RAW->ProRes (HQ/422/LT/Proxy) up to 30p

Please note that the Odyssey monitor/recorders can record to specific Samsung SSDs. There is a list on the CD website. The Samsung 850 EVO 1TB currently sells for about $300 from various retailers, which is quite affordable. Only qualified SSDs will function in an Odyssey and all qualified SSDs will work in all available record modes. You do not have to buy SSDs from Convergent Design. The Odyssey7Q+ ships with a 5-pack of SSD mounting handles and additional 5-packs are available for very low cost (I think it's $30).

The Odyssey monitoring tools are the best in the business. Programmable False Color, Monochrome channelling, Zebras, Spot Meter, waveform, Vectorscope, Histogram, Pixel Zoom with up to 12:1 magnification, programmable frame guides, programmable Focus Assist, anamorphic desqueeze, 17x9 monitoring, and a LUT routing system that includes some 25 presets plus room for 140 additional custom LUTs. All that plus an excellent OLED screen that offers true blacks and accurate colors. There really is no comparison to any other tool out there.
 
And don't forget the great support you get from the Convergent Design team! Dan Keaton, and Mitch Gross, are alway's there for technical support.
 
Kinok said:
The base Odyssey 7Q+ currently does everything the Shogun Inferno offers (and more) in terms of formats at $200 less ($1800 vs $2000). The Odyssey also does 4K ProRes 4:2:2 HQ/LT up to 30P and it even gives you the 2K RGB mode in DPX files, all without the RAW upgrade.
Click to expand...

Cameras that only send out 4K as RAW over SDI, such as the FS700 and C500, need the RAW bundle in order to record 4K ProRes. Just because the base 7Q+ is capable of recording 4K ProRes, does not mean it can turn a RAW stream into ProRes, so you are limited to 2k/1080p recording from the C500 without the CD RAW bundle. Comparing to the base model, only the Shogun can do 4K for the C500.

I've got no doubt's that the 7Q+ is the much better product, but for cameras which have RAW over SDI as their only means of 4K output, the Shogun Inferno will be better out-of-the-box, and much cheaper to achieve full functionality with.
 
deltoidjohn said:
I've got no doubt's that the 7Q+ is the much better product, but for cameras which have RAW over SDI as their only means of 4K output, the Shogun Inferno will be better out-of-the-box, and much cheaper to achieve full functionality with.
Click to expand...

The thing I need most is ProRes 4k not super interested in RAW out of the C500 at this point. I would love to get Slow Motion in 2k or 1080... will the Shogun Inferno do that as of shipping? I am tired of all their asterisks. I do love their false colors and menu navigation is simple and quick.

Best Regards,

Chris McGuinness

www.pulsecinema.com
 
deltoidjohn said:
Cameras that only send out 4K as RAW over SDI, such as the FS700 and C500, need the RAW bundle in order to record 4K ProRes. Just because the base 7Q+ is capable of recording 4K ProRes, does not mean it can turn a RAW stream into ProRes, so you are limited to 2k/1080p recording from the C500 without the CD RAW bundle. Comparing to the base model, only the Shogun can do 4K for the C500.

I've got no doubt's that the 7Q+ is the much better product, but for cameras which have RAW over SDI as their only means of 4K output, the Shogun Inferno will be better out-of-the-box, and much cheaper to achieve full functionality with.
Click to expand...

You are absolutely correct about the lack of ProRes 4K in the base Odyssey package (and Mitch already listed it as part of the RAW package above). After registering online with CD, I have been using my C500 and Odyssey 7Q+ combo in the 4K RAW "demo" mode, so I did not even try the ProRes 4K until today (at which point it said "Canon Mismatch"). Btw, the 4K RAW demo mode places a blue watermark over the bottom 2.35 guide mark, so it's great if you are just testing out the camera or if you need to shoot WS. It seems perfectly usable until I pay for the full upgrade in a month or two. I have yet to try the 2K RGB mode that records to DPX files. This is also a headline feature of the camera that you will get in the base Odyssey, but not at all in the Shogun Inferno.

But as for "full functionality," I have to disagree, since what the Inferno offers is nowhere near that. The lack of 4K 60P RAW, 4K 120P HRAW, and 2K RGB 4:4:4 are all deal breakers for me. You have these features today on the Odyssey, but you will never have them on the Inferno. The Inferno doesn't even list 2K ProRes 4444 XQ, which is something that was added to the Odyssey more recently.

We may also want to note that the 2K RGB and ProRes XQ footage from the C500 upscales to 4K in such a way that it looks like it was shot natively at 4K when compared with other cameras. In fact, the C500 sensor and processor uses four 2K color/data streams to output both 2K and 4K footage. The latter is incredibly detailed for 4K (it resolves as much detail as 6K footage from RED and Kinefinity) while the former looks like it was shot at 4K.

Some people even find that the C500's 4K mode is "too sharp" because of its incredible resolving power and they prefer to shoot in 2K RGB. Hurlbut shot Fathers and Daughters on the C500 in 2K RGB for this very reason.
 
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Kinok said:
Some people even find that the C500's 4K mode is "too sharp" because of its incredible resolving power and they prefer to shoot in 2K RGB. Hurlbut shot Fathers and Daughters on the C500 in 2K RGB for this very reason.
Click to expand...

I was always under the impression that Hurlbut shot F&D in 2K for the added color depth and richness that added to the image.

Best Regards,

Chris

www.pulsecinema.com
 
C-Mac said:
I was always under the impression that Hurlbut shot F&D in 2K for the added color depth and richness that added to the image.

Best Regards,

Chris

www.pulsecinema.com
Click to expand...

He said a few times that the C500 was "too sharp" or "video looking" in 4K mode for the purposes of the aesthetic look in Fathers and Daughters. This was also after he shot Need for Speed on the C500 in 4K (and mastered in 2K):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5febma4_OE

Here is an interview where Hurlbut and a few other C500 shooters discuss the more pleasing highlight roll-off in 2K RGB mode. It's also a great primer on exposing for the C500 ("protect highlights as the camera has 7 stops of DR in the underexposure"):

https://vimeo.com/111900328

The 2K RGB mode will indeed give you slightly more DR than the advertised 12 stops in 4K mode. Color depth, color separation, and richness are also added benefits to the RGB mode, not to mention the lack of aliasing/moiré:


Honestly, the camera looks great in all modes, even with the internal 1080P MXF files:


 
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