C300: C300: would you buy it now

Eric Coughlin said:
Advantages of C300 Mark I...

Long battery life on small batteries (AB/V-mount are rather large and heavy)
Name recognition; while the 5D is outdated spec-wise and in image quality, years later it is still a commonly requested camera, as the C300 likely will be too. A lot of producers don't stay on top of technology that much and don't want to be convinced of newer better cameras they've never heard of.
Probably significantly better low light
Cheap media that the client can afford to avoid spending a lot of time transferring data at the end of a shoot
Smaller and lighter overall
Better ergonomics for slider, monopod, Steadicam, small jib
Intuitive menu system and button interface
Reliability (no surprises such as the sun being a black hole or fixed pattern noise such as on other Blackmagic cameras)
Built-in ND filters (this is important)
Cheaper overall (used C300 + media + batteries = $6500, Ursa 4.6k + viewfinder + AB batteries + AB battery chargers + CFast Media + Ursa Mini shoulder mount & handle + ND filters + possible matte box for ND filters = approx $11,000)
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+ No need to stop the record, put stuff on the ground and smear the screen with his fingers to set the camera.
 
ggrantly said:
Seems like there is a fair amount of love for the C300, so if you want to trash it great, I would value your opinion. Please elaborate.
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Spent the last 48 hours flying for a job, sorry for the delay.

Not trashing it, it makes a great image but I honestly don't know who designed the thing - not anyone who puts a camera on their shoulder for a living.

My biggest gripe is the handle/lcd attachment. For one it makes the camera way too tall, it's of questionable quality, and is only really ever in the right place if the camera is on sticks at waist level. If you try to shoulder mount it and flip the LCD around and down you are going to put a kink in your neck looking up at it that you'll end up looking like the joshua tree. For handheld not on the shoulder it puts the lens too low.

So you take it off and use a third party monitor. Hope you don't need audio - because the XLR and controls are part of the whole attachment.

The handle is a joke even when nothing is attached to the body - I can't imagine trying to pick up a full rig with it.

The ND filter selection being buttons and not a wheel/flipper switch is stupid.

When on a shoulder your face covers the buttons on the body making them useless. The layout of the buttons still doesn't give them enough of a tactile separation in the dark or no look environments.

Honestly I like using it with just the EVF and the side handle even though I'm not the biggest fan of the EVF. This means you can't use a matte box or FF on rails because it will be too heavy to use stuck up to your face like a DSLR.

It makes a pretty image, it runs forever with little media or battery, its quiet, but it makes a RED look and function like a work of art in your hands, and that thing is a nightmare as well.
 
William_Robinette said:
Spent the last 48 hours flying for a job, sorry for the delay.

Not trashing it, it makes a great image but I honestly don't know who designed the thing - not anyone who puts a camera on their shoulder for a living.

My biggest gripe is the handle/lcd attachment. For one it makes the camera way too tall, it's of questionable quality, and is only really ever in the right place if the camera is on sticks at waist level. If you try to shoulder mount it and flip the LCD around and down you are going to put a kink in your neck looking up at it that you'll end up looking like the joshua tree. For handheld not on the shoulder it puts the lens too low.

So you take it off and use a third party monitor. Hope you don't need audio - because the XLR and controls are part of the whole attachment.

The handle is a joke even when nothing is attached to the body - I can't imagine trying to pick up a full rig with it.

The ND filter selection being buttons and not a wheel/flipper switch is stupid.

When on a shoulder your face covers the buttons on the body making them useless. The layout of the buttons still doesn't give them enough of a tactile separation in the dark or no look environments.

Honestly I like using it with just the EVF and the side handle even though I'm not the biggest fan of the EVF. This means you can't use a matte box or FF on rails because it will be too heavy to use stuck up to your face like a DSLR.

It makes a pretty image, it runs forever with little media or battery, its quiet, but it makes a RED look and function like a work of art in your hands, and that thing is a nightmare as well.
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From an ergonomics standpoint, even all the more reason to consider a C100. Even a Mark 1 C100. It's an incredible value and a much more user friendly shooting experience. You can rig one out with a Ninja Blade for less than 4k brand new, which nullifies the need for a better LCD for me. I know the Mark 2 has other improvements, but not two thousand dollars worth, IMO. I guess the C300s give you the 2K codec, but ProRes has been working just fine for me. Again, not worth spending the extra 2000 dollars.
 
One thing that is unique to only C300 and FS7 at this moment is dust/drip proof design. If you're going to do documentary in rough conditions there are the only large sensor pro camcorders having that feature.
 
For body style, I really don't understand why manufacturers didn't just go from the DVX100 to the GY-LS300.

When it finally dawned on them that we wanted large sensors and interchangeable lenses, the obvious route would have been to saw off the lens of the typical prosumer camcorder --- in other words, make a GY-LS300. Instead they went through every permutation possible but that.

Many of you prefer shoulder cameras, an even more established body style (which is not my preference, but it is still an eminenty level-headed choice). That body style is even more established than the prosumer camcorder style and perfected even longer ago.

Manufacturers should pick one or the other of these two established styles. Really I don't understand why of all people, Sony, Canon, and the rest would do anything but what is tried and true. And if they were going to experiment, why they would experiment with ergonomics, which doesn't really change.

Color me perplexed ;)
 
Yes, perplexed. "There is no perfect camera" - yes but there are a lot of imperfect cameras... Seems obvious to us users but so many cameras have that gotcha aspect.

Though I think handholding the C-series like a DSLR with your left hand under the bottom lip for support and focus is pretty good design.
 
The prices on the C500 are also appealing right now, just the same chip as a C300 and 50mb 422 in camera recording, with a lot more room to grow 4K 2K! as low as $8.500 WOW.


Broatch Berry

Venice CA
 
William_Robinette said:
Spent the last 48 hours flying for a job, sorry for the delay.

Not trashing it, it makes a great image but I honestly don't know who designed the thing - not anyone who puts a camera on their shoulder for a living.

My biggest gripe is the handle/lcd attachment. For one it makes the camera way too tall, it's of questionable quality, and is only really ever in the right place if the camera is on sticks at waist level. If you try to shoulder mount it and flip the LCD around and down you are going to put a kink in your neck looking up at it that you'll end up looking like the joshua tree. For handheld not on the shoulder it puts the lens too low.

So you take it off and use a third party monitor. Hope you don't need audio - because the XLR and controls are part of the whole attachment.

The handle is a joke even when nothing is attached to the body - I can't imagine trying to pick up a full rig with it.

The ND filter selection being buttons and not a wheel/flipper switch is stupid.

When on a shoulder your face covers the buttons on the body making them useless. The layout of the buttons still doesn't give them enough of a tactile separation in the dark or no look environments.

Honestly I like using it with just the EVF and the side handle even though I'm not the biggest fan of the EVF. This means you can't use a matte box or FF on rails because it will be too heavy to use stuck up to your face like a DSLR.

It makes a pretty image, it runs forever with little media or battery, its quiet, but it makes a RED look and function like a work of art in your hands, and that thing is a nightmare as well.
Click to expand...


OP here,


Thanks for that William.

It is interesting the points you bring up since to some extent, the reason I have delayed the purchase of a new camera are ergonomic issues. I would really prefer a shoulder mount cam; I can't handhold a handycam at all, my footage ends up looking like the Blair Witch Project. When the HPX370 came out, I thought that might be an answer, but it wasn't. JVC has some interesting cams, but they lack the confidence of the video community IMHO, so are probably doomed even if they work. It seems so strange to me how the manufacturers have abandoned shoulder mount except for higher end cams I can't afford like an Amira. Look at the buzz over the soon to be released mini-ursa with its limitations, yet the form factor is what folks want. I'd bet most of those folks would prefer to have an Amira but can't afford one.

One of the C300 packages being marketed include a shoulder mount kit from Zacuto which relocates the handle and VF. But it sure looks like a frankenrig compared to a regular shoulder mount cam; don't bump it! It also doesn't help with the buttons issue. So there is no perfect cam.

The C300 still interests me for all the other reasons, codec, SDI, large sensor, uses canon glass, no need for a big battery system, records to CF, not to mention a nice image. Oh decisions.

Grant
 
B.Berry said:
The prices on the C500 are also appealing right now, just the same chip as a C300 and 50mb 422 in camera recording, with a lot more room to grow 4K 2K! as low as $8.500 WOW.


Broatch Berry

Venice CA
Click to expand...

Where are you seeing C500 for 8.5k? Is it new or used?
 
combatentropy said:
For body style, I really don't understand why manufacturers didn't just go from the DVX100 to the GY-LS300...
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I don't understand why some people shoot handheld (or shoulder supported) while in a stationary position. A natural vibration of one's body always produces an inevitable shake that can be easily eliminated by a cheap monopod. With camera sizes dropping to minuscule - new MFT's like Olympus EM 5 MK II are soooooo tiny - physically holding a camera seems excessive.

As to camera controls themselves - IMO, they all should be be on (touch) screens and completely user-programmable. The exposure tools should be done via a virtual TV glasses like these

- http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-...r-Mobile-Private-Theater-with/1966269585.html

And then, every camera will operate alike ... exactly as its user wants it and the same way from brand to brand, from model to model.

(sorry for the mini hijack)
 
Touch screens, seriously? I had a cam with some touch screen features, and didn't like that at all. If the cam is so small there is no room for real buttons, then you have to and that's ok. But given a choice, I'll take a real button every time. It is good to have some programable buttons though.
 
Eric Coughlin said:
Probably significantly better low light
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This is the one that gives me the most pause.
With my 2nd and 3rd cameras being GH4's I really need something that excels in this area.
And, if past cameras are something to go off, the Ursa Mini may not be excellent at low light performance.
 
Aside from the unnaturally good performance of the A7s, the cinema EOS cameras are some of the best in low light.

-gl
 
I haven't got any authentic information as to how many stops better the c300 Mark II is in low light performance over the C300. Does anyone know?
 
George Loch said:
Aside from the unnaturally good performance of the A7s, the cinema EOS cameras are some of the best in low light.

-gl
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I am just editing a reception I shot with the Amira.
And at the times when minimal light falls on the subject the camera really struggles.
 
I'm surprised the Sony PMW-F3 hasn't been mentioned yet. As when the F3 and C300 were first released they were probably each other's closest competitor (unless you're more in the narrative film world, then a RED would be up there too).

I regard the F3 as better in almost every way over a C300 (such as better dynamic range, has 4:4:4, and has 60fps FHD), just losing out in a few ways (such as the F3 is bigger, which some might prefer, others won't. I will just need to hit the gym more often!).

It is astonishing how cheap you can get a F3 today. I picked up one yesterday for a fraction of the cost of a new C100.
While I had my heart set on a Sony FS7 or URSA Mini 4.6K, if I truly analyse it hard and honestly I know a F3 is more than satisfactory for my current business requirements and personal skill development.

I can wait, then in the future pick up a FS7 / URSA-M on the cheap ;-) Once they're on sale, or show up in large supply on the secondhand market.


spinkscapes said:
This is the one that gives me the most pause.
With my 2nd and 3rd cameras being GH4's I really need something that excels in this area.
And, if past cameras are something to go off, the Ursa Mini may not be excellent at low light performance.
Click to expand...

The URSA Mini 4.6K is meant to be their best yet at low ISO, though base ISO is still yet to be determined.
 
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