C300: C300: would you buy it now

G

ggrantly

Veteran
Hello Listers,

I had been thinking of a AJ-PX270 for a camera upgrade, but dang, the C300 would be pretty tempting at $2500 more. I know they are very different cams, so don't want to debate that.

I'm soliciting opinions on whether you feel the C300 is still relevant today at a 7k price point. Of course the C300 isn't 4k and you can get 4k cams for less money, that's for sure. But for small corporate-commercial work it still hits most of the right buttons. I have Canon glass already. I'm not much interested in any of the C100 models if just because of the internal codec difference and SDI connections on the C300. Your thoughts on a 3-4 year horizon? I can rationalize anything, but really, slap me if this idea is asshat.

TIA,
Grant
 
Hmm well it's still the best camera I've ever had. Hit all the marks for me. However, I would reconsider possibly the nature of the C100 esp in light of the MKII. Biggest drawbacks on the C300/C100 in the MKI stage (for me) was codec, and lack of good EVF which on the C300 MKI was AWESOME. However now the C100 MKII has the EVF.

I would think long/hard about the codec/SDI thing. It's a lot of extra money to pay for just that. The codec holds up really well on the C100, esp on commercial and small corp stuff. It's more than capable without trouble. SDI I get, but I would still reconsider. If that stuff is non-negotiable then you already have your answer.

I still think the C300 is relevant, but it's a harder sell at that price point, always was.
 
I think the C300 Mark I is a good camera at a reasonable price. Still high in demand for broadcast work I would think. I don't do much TV work so my clients don't generally care about broadcast codec or SDI, but if you already have that client base or see a way into that market then I'd say it's still a good bet. Otherwise, the C100 Mark II is a good option. Or the Sony FS7 if you have extra money and don't want to wait and spend even more for a C300 Mark II.
 
The C300 has a nice balance of features: picture quality, size, weight, and now price.

KyleProhaska said:
Hmm well it's still the best camera I've ever had. Hit all the marks for me.
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(ahem) All the marks? Every last one of them? Is global shutter not on your list? If it had global shutter, I would think it's a great camera for the price. Without global shutter, I think it is just a good camera for the price, possibly the best. Come on, you all, don't give up on global shutter. You can buy cameras with rolling shutter. You can even say that you like them. But please just always end it with, "I just wish it had global shutter." Just do it for me. Please.

Anyway, the thing I like about the C300 is that it's 2K --- which is more than enough, really --- but it does it from an original 4K Bayer pattern. The result is a great image with, quoth the raven, "Never moire."


At least, almost never moire.
 
Can I ask what you will be shooting with the C300 or the PX-270? I have looked at this scenario as well. The Mpeg-2 50mbps codec edits like butter and the image from the C300 is beautiful. I would be concerned with price and value. Quite frankly the resale of the C300 will continue to drop going forward. The pace of change in the video world is on overdrive right now and in a year or two the C300 will look small in many folks eyes. The pocket 4k cameras are making stunning images, so you are catching a falling knife so to speak.

So I would agree with the above to consider a used unit. That way you have not overpaid and still get a world class camera. I recently rented a C100 MKII and was underwhelmed with the viewfinder. I hope the C300 version is/was better. The XF300 I owned had the best viewfinder I have ever used. Great color and detail. The C100's was a little washed out and had limited ability to dial-in. I was expecting it to be better than the XF300's viewfinder.

I really like the PX-270 for what it does but I am also searching for a larger sensor camera. The DVX-200 might be worth a look.
 
Nope. Can get the much better FS7 or URSA Mini for similar money.

Or save a bundle in getting the C100 instead with a Ninja Blade or BMD Video Assist.

C300 is in a bit of no man's land for me with its pricing / features. Your case/niche might be different however, you might find a crazy good deal on a second hand one which I wouldn't pass up either.
 
combatentropy said:
... Anyway, the thing I like about the C300 is that it's 2K --- which is more than enough, really --- but it does it from an original 4K Bayer pattern. The result is a great image with, quoth the raven, "Never moire." ...
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Kind of interesting that Canon gave up on oversampling with MK II, while Sony is using it on their hybrid A7R MK II but then skips the process up until hitting its top of the pro line F65. You'd have thunk that, at the very least, the double count - i.e., 8.3/8.8 x 2 - would be gaining higher acceptance.
 
C300, still relevant. Don't get too caught up in the 4k debate. It's still mostly a misnomer as at today's date. I do remember back in the day when people said shooting 4k gives you the flexibility to reframe and then others said that's lazy shooting, whilst today its a commonly accepted practice, so there's that component. I've had my C300 since day dot. Yes, I will move in the next 12 months, to what? Im waiting - not sure but as its only for bread and butter jobs which are usually on the lower end of my market...

In my time with the C300, theres been a lot of tech change and quite frankly I feel limited at times by frame rates. That along with the improved dynamic range of cameras recently released and announced, are the reasons why Ill move. Just to clarify its only on the lower end of my market where these issues arise, when theres no money to circumvent these small issues. Ive learned to expose Canon Log and can get away with a lot. SO would I buy a C300 today at todays price? Maybe not. Whilst I have enjoyed my time with the camera, theres just many more options on the market. The C300MKII hits a lot of my marks as at today.

Im also not predisposed to "it's gotta have global shutter". Read / write speeds aren't what they used to be and are far better these days. I'd forgo rolling shutter for another feature set that suits me, for example the workflow and sensitivity of the VariCam35 with dual native ISO.
 
OP here, thanks for all great the comments.

I really don't want any cam the records to internal AVCHD that costs more than a nice handycam. I have shot enough AVCHD to know that I wouldn't spend $5500 for a C100MkII to do it. And an external recorder connected with HDMI cables is a non-starter for me also. By the time you buy a C100 and add a good recorder for at least a grand, you're within maybe $500 of the C300Mk1. Just my thoughts on the C100 as nice a cam as it might be.

Grant
 
Noel Evans said:
I do remember back in the day when people said shooting 4k gives you the flexibility to reframe and then others said that's lazy shooting, whilst today its a commonly accepted practice, so there's that component.
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I've come to love this practice when shooting interviews. Of course I frame up a great looking image but the freedom to punch in allows me to use my 2nd cam angle in a more creative risky way. I know I have safe medium and closeups with the main cam. A handy tool in the tool box thats for sure.

Noel Evans said:
In my time with the C300, theres been a lot of tech change and quite frankly I feel limited at times by frame rates. That along with the improved dynamic range of cameras recently released and announced, are the reasons why Ill move. Just to clarify its only on the lower end of my market where these issues arise, when theres no money to circumvent these small issues. Ive learned to expose Canon Log and can get away with a lot. SO would I buy a C300 today at todays price? Maybe not. Whilst I have enjoyed my time with the camera, theres just many more options on the market. The C300MKII hits a lot of my marks as at today.
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Limited frame rates was the reason I bought an FS7 over a used C300 in Nov (at the time they were the same price. No brainer). I hated having to bring in a 3rd party camera at addition cost every-time creative needed highspeed. Wether we like it or not its a trend that at least my clients have been asking for. The great news is that if you business has no need for overcranking you can save some $$ a used C300 used. Great option at a good price.
 
I have only words of love for this camera. Every camera has got some weaknesses. One needs to circumvent that. The weakness of C300 is its lack of slow motion at 1080p. Else, everything else is fine for me. One can even edit files using a macbook pro while traveling or directly in location. This camera has a massive brand recall, even with non broadcast clients. And I love the files.

The C300 will continue to give me clients for atleast another two years. I am planning to buy the C300 Mark II and will use both the cameras for multi-camera shoot.
 
DLD said:
Kind of interesting that Canon gave up on oversampling with MK II, while Sony is using it on their hybrid A7R MK II but then skips the process up until hitting its top of the pro line F65.
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Hmm, what do you mean by this? The A7R mkII is line skipping at all modes except one, so not seeing much over sampling there if I understand things correctly.
Personally, I wouldn't buy a non-4K camera today unless I was I had enough work lined up for it to make it pay for itself really rather quickly.
 
dmitrizigany said:
Hmm, what do you mean by this? The A7R mkII is line skipping at all modes except one, so not seeing much over sampling there if I understand things correctly...
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Well, they haven't yet revealed the exact tech behind the full frame 4K. Mark Weir, in an interview I linked a few pages ago, said that the s35 crop gets 4K from ~ 15 MPX, making it a superior 4K cam to pretty much anything that's out there currently (I presume he meant F65, which has 20 MPX).

YMMV but, IMO, oversampling was what made F35 and C300 such good performers during the long forgotten* HD era and what makes the F65 and Red Dragon standout 4K models.

*I kid, I kid.
 
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ggrantly said:
OP here, thanks for all great the comments.

I really don't want any cam the records to internal AVCHD that costs more than a nice handycam. I have shot enough AVCHD to know that I wouldn't spend $5500 for a C100MkII to do it. And an external recorder connected with HDMI cables is a non-starter for me also. By the time you buy a C100 and add a good recorder for at least a grand, you're within maybe $500 of the C300Mk1. Just my thoughts on the C100 as nice a cam as it might be.

Grant
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I'm pretty sure you can slap together a C100 rig with a good external recorder for way less than even a C300 Mk1 (currently 7k on B&H).
 
While we're talking about camera longevity, new technologies, etc... I've yet to work with a customer who's needed a deliverable on 2k or 4k. Even from a theatrical distribution standpoint, I've had friends shoot on a C100, uprez to 2k, and the image on a theater screen looks amazing.

Here's an example from Steve Mims, one of my old professors. Shot in 1k on a C100 (prores). Got limited theatrical distribution. https://vimeo.com/85407979

Point is, I think people get too hung up on what tech they're working with. I know some people who still use a DVX100 for web work. Decade old tech. Works fine.

I don't see why a C100 or C300 couldn't be viable for many, many years to come.

What are you guys shooting that requires 2k or 4k? I'm honestly curious. If you're shooting something that you know is getting theatrical distribution, I guess it makes some sense... but then I'd assume you'd have the budget for gear in a much different price range anyway.
 
Is it true that the C100mkII has the same flip-out and EVF as the C300 understanding that the placement is different?

After having several PannyCams with terrible EVFs and flip-outs, I swore that I'd never again purchase a cam where this feature is lacking. Not saying an external wouldn't always be better, but they should be good enough for basic run and gun. So many legacy cams were dreadful and I have heard that the C100mk1 was not good either.

Grant
 
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