C300: C300 mkII rumours are getting serious

They are going to use the current S35 CMOS sensor in the mkII as well, and that is 4k 60Hz.

Reading the the white papers between the lines you get the feeling 8 bit was a compromise with many factors: time pressure, circuitry, codec, data bandwidth… Let's assume this has no been corrected and the internal pipeline is 10bit. That means at least 10bit out. But hopefully Canon goes all the way and uses a modern 10bit compressed codec for internal as well.

If Canon won't go head to head with RED/Sony on framerates, it would be cool if they could offer the best possible INTERNAL image quality.

Data consumption, 4k 60fps:

ProRes 422 HQ (1886Mb/s): 236MB/s
ProRes 422 (1257Mb/s): 157MB/s

Data consumption, 4k 30fps:

ProRes 422 HQ (943Mb/s): 118MB/s
ProRes 422 (629Mb/s): 79MB/s

Even if Canon won't go with ProRes, this provides a pointer to what the memory cards will have to put up with, sustained.

I'm thinking a Dual Pixel C300 with 4k30p 10bit internal, 4k60p 10bit uncompressed out and some flavor of 2k120p internal for $11995 would sell like crazy.
 
They better squeeze in some more stops of dynamic range so that the image doesn't start going funky at a few stops over.
c500.jpg
 
DR is a non issue in my book. With the same sensor and Canon Log it won't change.

If you are having issues at 4 stops OVER, my suggestion is to exposure correctly by reducing exposure by 4 stops.

Canon's CINEMA EOS image aesthetic is already built into Canon Log. They have 800% latitude—it is what it is.
 
I don't think it will have to compete with the FS7 to compete with it.

Remember the C300 v Scarlet "battle". Some cameras just seem to get taken up well by the industry. I imagine the C300 mkII will follow in these footsteps.

So, I think it will be a little less feature packed and a little higher priced than the FS7... But will just be a great all rounder again.
 
AndreeOnline said:
... Even if Canon won't go with ProRes, this provides a pointer to what the memory cards will have to put up with, sustained....
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They don't have any ProRes cameras now, do they? They seem to prefer H264 on everything due to the free licensing and cheaper media. If so, then expect H265/HEVC internal with this next generation of products. If you want ProRes, you'd probably have to go external via HDMI.

Now, C500 might have some sort of an internal Raw to SSD's but that will be in the different arena.

Jay Birch said:
I don't think it will have to compete with the FS7 to compete with it...
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If image quality is comparable and the features are roughly the same, then why would people choose C300 if it's almost double the price? Remember, when C300 came out three years ago, there was nothing of similar quality from their main competitors, so they had the pricing power then. They don't now.

BTW, judging off the FS7 owners posts, people have turned it into a prime time TV worthy camera (at least, in the UK). Sure, some people will prefer the Canon "look" but new custom LUT's can (probably) make the two cams pretty similar in how they handle the variables and, if so, then prices will have to be very close also.
 
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DLD said:
If image quality is comparable and the features are roughly the same, then why would people choose C300 if it's almost double the price?
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Size, ergonomics, glass... Clients trusting the Canon brand.

Sony already had the F3 at that point, which, internal 4:2:2 aside, was much higher spec'd. It bombed.

I'm hoping Canon launch an FS7 competitor in a C300 body, at similar prices.... I'm just not pinning any hopes on it. Canon just don't seem to operate like other companies.
 
DLD said:
They don't have any ProRes cameras now, do they?
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The ProRes example I gave was to illustrate the memory card speeds needed for a good quality 10bit intra frame codec. I did not mean to imply that Canon will be shipping the C300mkII recording to ProRes internally.

Interestingly, how large a % of the user base wouldn't pay whatever the break even price is for Canon to buy the licenses to implement that?
 
I don't need RAW. I need ProRes as that is what I deliver to my clients after shooting with the C300.

Canon's Dual Pixel AF technology is the best at the moment. Once my Letus Helix reaches me from US, then it will be of lot of help. Getting sanction for a focus puller (in wireless mode) apart from a sound guy is not easy.

I am fine with DR. Earlier 12 stops of DR was unimaginable. The present digital generation seem to want every thing more. Higher bid depth, higher frame rate and ProRes 4K are the three things that would be good. As far as higher frame rate, I need it to be changed with the press of a button, and not diving into the menu. For wildlife as well as for sports, I need the higher frame rate for some instants and then quickly move back. If it is not on a dedicated button, then it would not be much of use for me.
 
The EF body C300 is $11499 right now. I don't know how a mark II starts for less, let alone the same amount.

I expect the cycle to repeat itself where Canon announces something that is adequate, solid, and relatively expensive on paper.
 
Ryan Farnes said:
The EF body C300 is $11499 right now. I don't know how a mark II starts for less, let alone the same amount.

I expect the cycle to repeat itself where Canon announces something that is adequate, solid, and relatively expensive on paper.
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Prices can drop real fast. The 1DC went from 12 000$ to 8 000$ in one day. I predict a price of about 8 499$ for the C300 MK1 and 12 499$ for MII. Just a guess.
 
I think Doug has it about right. Look at what Canon did with the C100 Mark II... prior to release, the C100 w/ DPAF was $5499. They released the C100 Mark II at the same price and knocked a grand off of the C100 bodies.

I could see a C300 Mark II coming out at $11499 and the C300 original dropping to $9999 or similar.
 
I can assure everyone of this much... whatever camera platform I eventually decide upon will be the first to be summarily panned and hastened into obsoleteness. I'll inform everyone of my choice right after NAB so they can choose accordingly.
 
The C series will dominate: C100, C100 Mk2, C300, C300 Mk 2, c500, C500 Mk2, etc... they'll have every price point covered and most features in S35 from $4,000 to $20,000 in 5k increments. We will all feel manipulated because we will want to mix & match features differently than Canon's marketing department and for good reason. Canon will set the sweet spot just above our expected price point but they will continue to offer value. The wild card is a new form factor. They're holding a winning hand, especially in color. Let's hope they remain one of the only companies shipping cameras with features that actually exist and don't require "pending" firmware updates. Even Sony got on board the vaporware train. IMHO 20 yr NAB veteran.
 
mcgeedigital said:
C300 was $15,999 MSRP when it was introduced.

I'm betting you'll see the same from the mkII when it is rolled out.
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The C100 originally sold for $7999 and dropped to $4999 ($5499 w/ Dual Pixel AF installed) before the C100 Mark II was announced. The C100 Mark II wasn't announced at $7999 (the C100's original price) it was announced at the C100's price before the Mark II was announced.

I'd venture that the C300 Mark II will follow this same pattern. The original price of the C300 is irrelevant. When the C300 came out, it was the only camera that was anything like it.
 
I'm hoping for the $8K C300 MKII entry price but if it doesn't happen I have plenty of options including the FS7. They all will get it done but yeah I like the Canon Cinema EOS look.
 
One reason we haven't jumped on an FS7 yet(besides waiting to see the Canon C300 Mk II) is because I really like having a native PL-mount or the quasi-PL-mount of the C500 EF mount. The FS7 E-mount is consumer like, in comparison, and many of the mount adapters are questionable in operation and durability.

We even had Duclos convert our Canon CN-E primes to PL-mount. A native PL-mount camera body is hard to beat, IMO.
 
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