C300: C300 mkII rumours are getting serious

dude, you lost a job because of an ignorant client. you could have rented a C300. Anyways, I can't wait to see what Canon releases for the C300 at NAB, it may be out of my price range, BUT, if it's the right combination of features, Ill gladly spend a bit more to have a future proof camera
for the next 5 years.
 
puredrifting said:
Ughh, I lost a job with a new client this week because I didn't have the C300 MKI. I explained that the C100 with the Ninja Blade was actually shooting a much better codec at 220 Mbps, using the same sensor and he liked my reel, I had the perfect sample he wanted to see on a day in the life piece I shot for Sony. But in the end, the "name and rep" of the C300 sold him over using me. Now I think I must buy the C300 MKII simply for the brainwashed masses who hire DPs based off of the camera they own. First time I have ever lost a gig from not owning the right camera. I told him I could have rented a C300 but that put us over budget and he had a friend who owns the C300.

Weird, I am also a producer and when I hire DPs, I rarely care which camera they own, use, prefer, I hire based off of lighting skills, not model numbers. If they don't own the camera I want to use, we rent it. That said, the C300 MKII, if it isn't too expensive for my budget, seems as if it will be a sound business decision.
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Client is the King. Client is always right. The client decides. No point in having bitterness. One needs to build these scenarios into the business planning, decide on the amount of investment needed vis-a-vis returns and invest in equipment.
 
If the job doesn't have enough money to rent the camera package, why would you offer to bear that cost? I understand frustration when the production company doesn't want to rent the camera you own, but only because it doesn't return on investment. Just rent the camera they want.

If the camera is the deciding factor with a client, it's because they want to squeeze some kind of a deal out of an owner/operator. I find that stuff offensive. You don't own a camera to give clients a discount, you do it so that you become an expert on that camera system and can use it to make money at market value.

It's better to pass on a job than devalue your service IMHO. I definitely understand the occasional deal if you value a relationship, but this sometimes gets out of hand. If he had a "friend with a C300" who was going to just volunteer his camera, they are either not a very good shooter or a very good friend.
 
remsyatassi said:
If the job doesn't have enough money to rent the camera package, why would you offer to bear that cost? I understand frustration when the production company doesn't want to rent the camera you own, but only because it doesn't return on investment. Just rent the camera they want.

If the camera is the deciding factor with a client, it's because they want to squeeze some kind of a deal out of an owner/operator. I find that stuff offensive. You don't own a camera to give clients a discount, you do it so that you become an expert on that camera system and can use it to make money at market value.

It's better to pass on a job than devalue your service IMHO. I definitely understand the occasional deal if you value a relationship, but this sometimes gets out of hand. If he had a "friend with a C300" who was going to just volunteer his camera, they are either not a very good shooter or a very good friend.
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Totally Agreed!

It's like poker. Every once in a while you have to calculate the pot odds and what your holding. If the client is a large company that potentially has more work then yes, rent a pkg to get your foot in the door. Otherwise pass. Don't under cut yourself for someone that doesnt respect or understand the craft and your talents.

I'd rather have 5 clients that "get it" than 20 that nickel and dime me to death...
 
Back to the subject at hand. I have put off picking up a 300 to add to my 100 for a few months now. Canon does not usually announce cameras at NAB. So what do you all think is a likely time table for A: and announcement, B: Availability ?

I know at this point it is speculation. But I really can not hold out if I can not get one right around NAB or shortly thereafter.
 
Adding up...add it to the cost of the project and pass it along to the client. Have the project pay for it. The downside of you getting a C300 is you are paying a ton of money for an old camera that is guaranteed to be outdated in a few weeks. IMO, just not a great decision.
 
Prairieboy said:
Back to the subject at hand. I have put off picking up a 300 to add to my 100 for a few months now. Canon does not usually announce cameras at NAB. So what do you all think is a likely time table for A: and announcement, B: Availability ?

I know at this point it is speculation. But I really can not hold out if I can not get one right around NAB or shortly thereafter.
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The Red Shark News writers just came from BVE'15 in London (it's a UK based site, so a short drive for them to and fro) and are predicting a bunch of new 4K cameras. Are they merely speculating or being told to only hint at something broadly? I say a bunch of announcements is guaranteed but, after that delivery is anyone's guess. Hypothetically speaking, this second generation of affordable 4K cameras should be based on a proven technology, with a few new tricks but at a much lower price point.
 
JoeJITSU said:
Should I wait for the C300 or just get the Sony FS7?
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Unless you need it right now for a series of jobs that would pay a good dent in rentals I would hold off an wait. Then when you find out what Canon is offering and when it will be released (probably several months from NAB) you can decide which one makes better business sense. I would expect the C300II to be $4K more expensive at least. If the C300II uses Cfast cards then media costs will be comparable. Who knows what bit rates and codecs.
 
sonofaresiii said:
Yeah, telling a client they'll get the exact same value they've always gotten but the price will go up (potentially significantly) usually goes over really well.
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It all depends on the scope of the project. I always have a certain budget I need to work with for every project. There are line items for grip, cameras, rentals, makeup, set location....ect. Its more of a pitch to the client of the end product...and there are tools that will be required to deliver that product. Some of those tools are owned...and some need rented. A camera is just another piece of gear....like grip, lighting....ect.

It really all depends on the types of shoots, clients, and budgets you are working with. For the productions I am asked to put together, if we need a camera, gimbal, or any other specialized piece go gear that we do not own....I make a list and lobby to have that cost included in the budget. If it is something important like a camera...its definitely included. In my particular situation...I am working within a company and the clients are also companies so it is different than working with an independent customer.

If it was an independent with a smaller budget, yea it would be harder to get the approval for those expenses.
 
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Ah but you are missing the point. My day rate with gear is higher than my day rate without obviously. So the longer I go renting a camera, as opposed to that rental money going to paying for my own gear, it hurts my bottom line over time. Every shoot I go out on where I rent an additional C300, or an FS7 is money that could go to a camera payment, or picking up a few grips stands and some extra batteries. A week of rental and well I could of added that macro lens that I was thinking of picking up, or hired an extra grip when the budget may have been tighter.
Waiting is tough. I know the next camera I need to own has to 4K, and I would rather not rent any more for the stated reasons.
Yes the line item gets passed on to the client. But when you supply the gear, and have to go outside on a pretty consistent basis it turns to poor business practices.
 
Prairieboy said:
Ah but you are missing the point. My day rate with gear is higher than my day rate without obviously. So the longer I go renting a camera, as opposed to that rental money going to paying for my own gear, it hurts my bottom line over time. Every shoot I go out on where I rent an additional C300, or an FS7 is money that could go to a camera payment, or picking up a few grips stands and some extra batteries. A week of rental and well I could of added that macro lens that I was thinking of picking up, or hired an extra grip when the budget may have been tighter.
Waiting is tough. I know the next camera I need to own has to 4K, and I would rather not rent any more for the stated reasons.
Yes the line item gets passed on to the client. But when you supply the gear, and have to go outside on a pretty consistent basis it turns to poor business practices.
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If this is the case, why bother going with the latest and greatest? Just buy something smaller like a C100 while you wait for what you want, OR buy something like an FS7 and call it a day. There is always going to be a new camera, buy something and make money with it rather than wait forever if there are opportunities to make money.
 
I own 2 c100s.
I was just trying to find out if anybody knew anything to hold me off from picking up another camera, as I thought that was the point of the forum. Silly thinking on my part.
 
Prairieboy said:
I own 2 c100s.
I was just trying to find out if anybody knew anything to hold me off from picking up another camera, as I thought that was the point of the forum. Silly thinking on my part.
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I'm not sure what you mean. If you need 4k I get it, but you're mentioning kit rental fee, which you should still get just fine with your C100. Unless you're shooting TV doc I rarely find C100 vs C300 to be an issue at all with clients, but maybe that's just me.

When a C300 mkii announcement is made at all it will blow up this forum... anyone who has insider knowledge is no doubt under strict NDA.
 
remsyatassi said:
... anyone who has insider knowledge is no doubt under strict NDA.
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For about two more weeks, I reckon. Maybe April, 1st.

As to the camera estimated time of arrival, mid-late summer would probably be a safe bet. Do your calculations accordingly.
 
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