C300: C300 Mark II or Sony FS7? Need help to pick one out, Will be buying either one
- Thread starter JoeJITSU
- Start date
ReelWorksMedia
Well-known member
I vote Mark II. Thats the way I'll be going.
Matt Turner
Well-known member
WWPBD?
What would Philip Bloom do?
What would Philip Bloom do?
The focus tracking features of the Mark II seem pretty impressive if you can make use of them. If you intend to rent your gear out, I suspect that the Mark II will have greater demand than the FS7. ( just about every rental house I know has the C100 and C300 in their inventory )
Depends on your priorities and what producers are asking of you. If the C300 Mk II retains the color rendering of the original (or improves upon it)... same with ergonomics.... no contest.
The image should be much better than the Epic, anyway, though probably not quite as nice as a cleanly-lit and well-graded Dragon show.
The image should be much better than the Epic, anyway, though probably not quite as nice as a cleanly-lit and well-graded Dragon show.
He'd buy two FS7's and *****-slap the OP for suggesting otherwise.
Dumb jokes aside, A7s+Shogun is currently on sale ($500 rebate, making it about a $4,000 total + media) and A7s does have a passable auto-focus. While it's not made for run&gun, neither is Epic and, if you're shooting a narrative, an ability to do a multiple camera production ought not be underestimated.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
I think it is a complex question.
Let me debunk some myths on the FS7.
-the slomo above 72FPS is a bit wooly.
-the viewfinder and handle are overrated, you are likely to end up buying costly replacements - at least of the VFinder
-I think the crowd who have been commissioning C300 will be eager to switch to the II and will need persuasion to move to Sony. (This is idiocy by producers but also fact!)
Compared to..
-the canon is probably sharp up to 120
-the canon is so badly shaped we know that an EFV is required!
-The C300 has always punched above it's spec on paper weight image wise
Me? Id probably actually like to shoot with TWO FS7 given a $20k budget.
S
Let me debunk some myths on the FS7.
-the slomo above 72FPS is a bit wooly.
-the viewfinder and handle are overrated, you are likely to end up buying costly replacements - at least of the VFinder
-I think the crowd who have been commissioning C300 will be eager to switch to the II and will need persuasion to move to Sony. (This is idiocy by producers but also fact!)
Compared to..
-the canon is probably sharp up to 120
-the canon is so badly shaped we know that an EFV is required!
-The C300 has always punched above it's spec on paper weight image wise
Me? Id probably actually like to shoot with TWO FS7 given a $20k budget.
S
JoeJITSU
Veteran
we are in Vegas and there are times that we overlap in the Event category, we would end up giving this camera to the second unit.
This forum is here for a reason, I've shot a lot of Reality shows, Docs (Manny Pacquiao, 350 days) and some movies, it doesn't mean I know everything about cameras, I will always be a student and learning all the time no matter how long I've been filming. I am on this forum like everyone else to learn and to share knowledge as well, yes, even Mr. Bloom learns still, it's an Art we learn everyday
steve phillipps
Veteran
Seriously???! I read that several times to see if it was sarcasm but doesn't look like it - seriously???
Steve
Spartacus
Veteran
For one-man-crews I´m a firm believer of the EOS Cinema line.
I like this shot from the C300MII launch movie:
DVXuser compresses and sizes it down, but how the camera handled the balance of outdoor and indoor lighting, should check many boxes for "on location" shooters.
(The window surely is NDed, but still...)
But although I expect a lot from the C300MII it isn't out yet - when do you need the new cam?
And since you want to get rid of the Epic in the process, maybe still having two cameras (for about the price of one) is another thing
worth considering and would point to the FS7.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Steve - Ive lost count of Red chip iterations but I would expect a Canon to be better than last years Red if the canon is not compressing the fk out of the image.
S
S
nyvz
Veteran
Well do you need it now or in 6months? And do you want to spend $10k or $20k? And do you care about internal 4k60 or 2k180, or is 4k30 and 2k120 cropped fine? These differentiators are probably the main dealbreakers for most since both can create very nice images and have great sensitivity.
Yes but the FS7 does up to 180fps and no doubt Canon 120fps will be sharper and less aliased but only because it is cropped instead of binned/skipped, so you may need to carry some extra 16mm PL or super-wide EF lenses to compensate. But perhaps the OP is used to that with the Epic?
In the end some of it may come to C300II image performance. From the sample film nothing looks particularly impressive, but perhaps the C300II will outperform expectations. I do like the way canon implements their gain, with software gain below ISO800 and hardware above, where in the FS7 you can only chose between software gain in CineEI or hardware gain in Custom...
Yes but the FS7 does up to 180fps and no doubt Canon 120fps will be sharper and less aliased but only because it is cropped instead of binned/skipped, so you may need to carry some extra 16mm PL or super-wide EF lenses to compensate. But perhaps the OP is used to that with the Epic?
In the end some of it may come to C300II image performance. From the sample film nothing looks particularly impressive, but perhaps the C300II will outperform expectations. I do like the way canon implements their gain, with software gain below ISO800 and hardware above, where in the FS7 you can only chose between software gain in CineEI or hardware gain in Custom...
steve phillipps
Veteran
And better than last year's Alexa and F65???
Same dilemma for me. I may get fs7 to make money on it till C300II will be released and then trade it in. I see FS7 as the first Sony camera below $10k that finally can be tweaked to not have that video/sony look. But with AF capabilities of the C300II I see thousand new possibilities. Call me mad but with 4K and 15 stops of DR I can even see it as a replacement of stills camera in some cases.
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morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Hard to say given Arris is optimised for awesome 1080 and Sony is optimised for true 4k, so it depends on your definition of good. Apples, Pears.
IMO Sony/Canon have a tech lead over the indies, in the main, when they dont chuck the data out before we see it!
Mainly that lead shows in IR handling and ISO performance.
Pretty soon (IMO) the 'big beasts' will only compete on FPS, writing lutted proxies, etc. The core image of 'cheap cams' will be great.
S
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I would expect that the Canon would be better than the Epic as well.
The Epic only has 12 stops of DR and the sensor tech in the Canon's is exceptional. Really
But no way would it be better than the Alexa, F65 or Dragon.
I thought it was spelled Apple ProRes (oops, a pun)
They have a huge lead but the indies but the indies are quicker to the punch quite often and can offer a more competitive package without needing to protect their other cameras and/or each other (in Japan, cartels are quite legal). At some point, obviously, the sheer manufacturing capacity of the Big Boys will win them the battle and the indies will have to find themselves a suitable dancing partner to stay alive.
I will argue that it is there already and the image difference between A7s+Shogun and Dragon for most at-home consumers is negligible if not entirely absent. For the pros, that difference is in the work-flow and that will soon be eliminated, as you suggest, as well.
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FrameFarmMedia
Veteran
If you are in the market for a camera and have regular work it really makes sense to just buy the Sony and save on constant rentals. When the C300II is released test both out and sell the FS7 or just keep earning with it. At the price point it will have paid itself off many times over before 14 stops, 4K60p HD180p, 10bit 422 becomes outdated for acquisition.