C300: C300 Mark II Blue LED light issue

So we shot a color chart under controlled settigs and blue is purple under most of not all formats and profiles. It is NOT an LED issue yet is a color science issue. I'll post results when i get the chance.

So, I've received a lot of feedback with 'cheap LEDs' or 'the sensor is too good and sees more of the color spectrum'... we've tested with LED, Kinos, Arri tungsten.. to which all yield the same result. White Balance, Black balance, etc... all correct. I've been with technicians at multiple camera rental facilities and stunned all with the result, especially when paired next to FS7, C300, C100, or Phantom... the results are just wrong. Also shot alongside another C300II body and found similar results... so the question is, where do we go from here? Why am I the only one to find issue with this and start the discussion about it? How is this not a bigger (major) issue to other cinematographers, yet Noise Reduction gets an uproar?!?
The solution is not a LUT to be applied in post, it may be a patch, but not a fix. If I decide to hand off the proxy SD card with LUT to client as final deliverable to walk away with, I have to explain why their BLUE stage branding colors are PURPLE.. or explain to them how my 5D, C300, C100 would have captured their footage properly, but this 4K, more expensicve camera will still need to be adjusted significantly to yield the desired color result... so again, am i the only one with this issue or how is everyone else so complacent with this very apparent issue?

Thoughts?
 
This could be a side effect of Canon trying to make skin tones look good and the purple is from extra red added to blue. In any case there should be an option to turn it off, as they recently added with NR.
 
I feel your pain. I have dealt with this exact problem since I bought my first C500. What I discovered was when recording 10-12bit out of the 3GSDI's to an Odyssey 7Q the blues were purple. If I looked at the same recording that was recorded in-camera the blues were correct. I am not familiar with the MKII does it have 8bit recording at all? If it does you could test this?

At one time I owned a few C500's and a c300 Mark I and would do multi camera shoots the C300 would always render the colors properly it was very frustrating to have this happen. I tried everything imaginable to fix and was unsuccessful. Although now I have found one thing that has fixed the problem... I own Amira's bingo problem solved!! I am contemplating buying an Alexa mini for our MoVi work because now it is very obvious there is an issue in certain lighting situations when shooting these cameras side-by-side.

Sorry I couldn't be more of a help as I said I feel your pain.
 
Did you actually go through every color and gamma profile? I just finished doing a test trying to figure out how to match my C300 II to my C100 II's and while I don't have an answer on the best profile, I can tell you that the various color profiles have a significant effect on the way the colors are handled. You can also go into each individual color channel and make corrections. Furthermore, the white balance on each camera is different. If you manually set the white balance on each camera to the same temperature, they will not match.

In fact, just looking at the picture you posted, it appears that the white of the chair and skin is noticeably more pink in the C300 II shoot. Based on my tests, you probably needed to set the C300 II closer to 5300K to get a match with the older cameras at 5600K.
 
I agree with all of your post. The C300II is warmer and dialing WB up or down may or may not help you. Typically with the C300II, I get white balance numbers that are 1000 degrees, or more, lower than the C300 MarkI.

Shooting with the MarkII and MarkI is a lot like getting a 5D and a C300 MarkI to match up. Very different color rendering in the cameras.

I would definitely try and fine tune some of the color profiles by adjusting the RBG values.
 
Yes, went thru every profile and setting on a color test chart with a 5600 Kino under controlled setting at camera rental house... it's a blue issue. Dialing the purple to be more accurate happened within the R-B setting , yet modifying the blue has a negative effect on the other colors.... how about it just render the blue colors properly.

cpreston said:
Did you actually go through every color and gamma profile? I just finished doing a test trying to figure out how to match my C300 II to my C100 II's and while I don't have an answer on the best profile, I can tell you that the various color profiles have a significant effect on the way the colors are handled. You can also go into each individual color channel and make corrections. Furthermore, the white balance on each camera is different. If you manually set the white balance on each camera to the same temperature, they will not match.

In fact, just looking at the picture you posted, it appears that the white of the chair and skin is noticeably more pink in the C300 II shoot. Based on my tests, you probably needed to set the C300 II closer to 5300K to get a match with the older cameras at 5600K.
Click to expand...
 
I have a big question to why am I the only one mentioning this ridiculous issue instead of just "deaing with it" or "adjust the colors" or "maybe this or that"..... i'm glad I began this thread because I've gotten a lot of feedback from other owners with the same issue across multiple continents and some, like me, have repeatedly sent their camera into canon service to have it returned as 'fixed' , only to have the same issue.

Why is it that everyone praises Canon for putting an off switch on noise reduction, while the camera shoot a simple blue light. So the black curtain background on a presentation will be a little less noisy, but the blue color uplighting it will look like dogshit.

How is this issue merely tossed aside and other owners dont see how completely ridiculous this is.
 
I have a big question to why am I the only one mentioning this ridiculous issue instead of just "deaing with it" or "adjust the colors" or "maybe this or that"..... i'm glad I began this thread because I've gotten a lot of feedback from other owners with the same issue across multiple continents and some, like me, have repeatedly sent their camera into canon service to have it returned as 'fixed' , only to have the same issue.

Why is it that everyone praises Canon for putting an off switch on noise reduction, while the camera shoot a simple blue light. So the black curtain background on a presentation will be a little less noisy, but the blue color uplighting it will look like dogs*%t.

How is this issue merely tossed aside and other owners dont see how completely ridiculous this is.
 
Question... did you only use the on-board monitor for your picture tests? You really need to match the cameras to the same monitor if not. I am just going by the photos you supplied in your earlier post, didn't find later if you used a calibrated monitor, or at least, the same monitor for all cameras.
 
sfcameraman said:
Question... did you only use the on-board monitor for your picture tests? You really need to match the cameras to the same monitor if not. I am just going by the photos you supplied in your earlier post, didn't find later if you used a calibrated monitor, or at least, the same monitor for all cameras.
Click to expand...

Yep... it's seen/compared in previous posts. Calibrated monitor.
 
What color space are you recording the canon log in:

Colour Space
Cinema Gamut
BT.2020 Gamut
DCI-P3 Gamut
BT.709 Gamut
I find the BT.709 Gamut has the truest white point, and really nails the colors I want to create using my C500 platform. Not having any of the purple problems you are having with the blue, using BT.709 color space. If there was any color I see the canon having a wee problem with it might be the green spectrum? and that is minuscule. I do luv my C500!
 
B.Berry said:
What color space are you recording the canon log in:

Colour Space
Cinema Gamut
BT.2020 Gamut
DCI-P3 Gamut
BT.709 Gamut
I find the BT.709 Gamut has the truest white point, and really nails the colors I want to create using my C500 platform. Not having any of the purple problems you are having with the blue, using BT.709 color space. If there was any color I see the canon having a wee problem with it might be the green spectrum? and that is minuscule. I do luv my C500!
Click to expand...

The reported issue is with the C300 mkII.
 
Just quoting Fab410
I feel your pain. I have dealt with this exact problem since I bought my first C500. What I discovered was when recording 10-12bit out of the 3GSDI's to an Odyssey 7Q the blues were purple. If I looked at the same recording that was recorded in-camera the blues were correct. I am not familiar with the MKII does it have 8bit recording at all? If it does you could test this?

At one time I owned a few C500's and a c300 Mark I and would do multi camera shoots the C300 would always render the colors properly it was very frustrating to have this happen. I tried everything imaginable to fix and was unsuccessful. Although now I have found one thing that has fixed the problem... I own Amira's bingo problem solved!! I am contemplating buying an Alexa mini for our MoVi work because now it is very obvious there is an issue in certain lighting situations when shooting these cameras side-by-side.

Sorry I couldn't be more of a help as I said I feel your pain.

I know when I switch my color space to BT 709 the color I see on my monitor with my LUT on is truer to what I'm lighting be it warm or neutral, or party gels, but when I'm in
BT.2020, Cinema Gamut, or DCI-P3, my colors go pretty wacky, and need a lot more grading with whatever LUT I'm working with.

Thinking the color space could be the issue with the C300 II?
 
implicted said:
Thanks.... also, B.Berry... previous posts would answer that question.. ALL.
Click to expand...

It sounds like this camera isn't going to work in your application. You tried everything including testing all of the color spaces, matrix and gammas and shifting the white balance and RGB values and nothing is going to work. You should probably either sell the camera or get another C100 II to use as a third camera. There is nothing worse than taking on a gig and realizing that you brought the wrong tool for the job. I know you aren't actually looking for advice, but that is what I would give if somebody actually wanted advice.

As to why people don't seem to be jumping on the bandwagon of trashing the C300 II as much as you expected, most of us who own these cameras recognize that they have limitations and try to figure out solutions to make them work. That is why people were giving you suggestions on how to make it work. From my own experience, cameras do weird things with highly saturated LED lights that are approaching the clipping point and each Canon camera has completely different kelvin responses. I am not surprised that you had this problem with matching the C300 to the C100. I went through and tested the C300 II color matrix to the C100 II when I first got them and realized that nothing quite matches. This is especially true when you realize that they don't have the same white balance points. You can't set them to the same white balance manually and expect them to match. The cinema eos original seems to come closest, but it isn't perfect.
 
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