But this actually is the beginning of the end, right?

As much as I think this cam will be the answer to a lot of peoples needs, it isn't for me. Sorry, but $6k, likely £6k by the time it gets over here is just too much for me, even (Especially?) the 2/3" Scarlet will likely be beyond my budget.
Realistically I could just go to a 5DII, perhaps even a 5DIII when it is released, but anything more? For my needs / budget? No, with regret.
This doesn't mean I don't understand the limitations of vDSLR video, I do, I'll just have to decide if I can live with them or wait for Canon to sort them out.
Dave
 
IMHO, a groundswell of indie videographers and hobbyists/enthusiasts are the ones that exploited still cams like the GH1, 7D, 5DmkII, etc. to produce professional-looking video. Now knowing these cams limitations and looking for solutions, this would seem the perfect product. But are they going to pay 6k?
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I think this could be the perfect rental cam, if you have already tooled up with your choice of lenses, mics etc. It should be very modular in this respect. Say you have a VDSLR or 2 that you earn income from small jobs, but get hired one week to shoot a 3 camera concert. Rent 2 bodies for the job and that's it.
You could say that with these 2 announcements this week, there is even more reason to start investing in lenses.
 
Chamber005 said:
So this announcement (and one soon to follow from Canon) really and finally puts all the DSLR and 35mm adapter stuff to rest, right?

Obviously DSLRs will continue to be the absolute cheapest options for indie filmmaking, but I have to think that most people will just decide to save up for an actual video camera come 2011.

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wc...0101919040&surfModel=Content04082010101919040
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I remember saying Panasonic should make the small form factor camera that looked like an 8mm camera with interchanghable cards and call it the dragon (or was that snap dragon?) with HD resolution, and make it priced in the 1-2k range, with a 2/3 sensor and stripped of all other non needed things while retaining xlr audio.

That is what COULD have negated the HDSLR take over.

Panasonic never took the bait.

I STILL think a $1k-$2k of this sort COULD bring customers back.

The $6000 price point is a 3 x jump for people wanting to do video as best as possible. Many simply don't have that kind of money, but do have enough to BUILD a 9K camera OVER TIME.

IF Panasonic wants customers back, I think they need a $1,500 camera that WOWS us, and then follow up with a 3k camera, and then a 6K camera.

Personally with my HMC150, I can do the long form stuff, so don't need a $6k option

I feel the majority will also use a $3k option for long form.


Good luck Panasonic.

P.S.,

I also said they (Panasonic ) needed to slash the price of P2 cards, or they would have many jump ship on that whole product line...and they (customers) did.

I think it would have been a game changer (well it would have slowwed the bleeding) if Panasonic used the P2 card as a loss leader, to keep and gain their P2 customer base.
 
you can never please everyone LOL

i bet if they release this at 1500 price there will still e people complaining.

If a camera was out of reach for me, i'd say "darn! i cant afford that.. oh well.."

now, people actually have the nerve to say "dammit! its waay overpriced compared to my $700 dslr!"

spoiled brats.
 
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Don't forget, when the Panasonic $6k camera comes out (4th quarter of 2010).

Canon will be releasing their Video camera that takes 35mm lenses.

Without the need to do stills as well, and having xlr audio, uh I don't think you will have to worry about ailiasing so much.

I am more apt to go that route.


Panasonic is great, but they really need a sub 2k WOW camera to get people back (just my view)
 
well for me
Sony and panasonic makes sense to release something like this since their lenses (or upcoming lenses for their evil cam) autofocuses really well on video.

green hornet:
you can wait for a fantasy or wait for a vaporware. choose your poison. hehehe

for me, im getting the one who comes out first. and thats panasonic.
 
A conundrum for Canon if making a similar camera to AF100 is the lens mount. If they just move over the EF mount from the still cameras it will be more limited in lenses that can be adapted easily. We've seen the permanent hardware hacks done to both 7D and 5DmkII to fit PL-lenses on them. The other way would be to come up with a new mount with shorter flange distance and then include a EF adapter to that mount in the package plus either Canon do themselves adapters for per example PL glass or hope that third party makers will bring out such things. This are some serious market and engineering decisions that Canon has to be dealing with now.

In this respect Panasonic Broadcast got a nice solution handed to them on a silver platter by Panasonic Consumer Cameras due to their decision to ditch the mirror box and shorten the flange distance on the G series still cameras. The plethora of available adapters to nearly all commercially made lenses out there is pretty staggering and Panasonic really plays up this advantage in their booth at NAB.

 
dcloud said:
well for me
Sony and panasonic makes sense to release something like this since their lenses (or upcoming lenses for their evil cam) autofocuses really well on video.

green hornet:
you can wait for a fantasy or wait for a vaporware. choose your poison. hehehe

for me, im getting the one who comes out first. and thats panasonic.
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Hey Cloud,

The Canon XF305 wil be here in June. (Not the camera I am talking about, but still has 4:2:2 color and pro audio at least)

It's going to be about $7 grand though.

3CCD's and all but Mpeg compression sucks.

Canon should team with Cineform codec and Kill them all.
Most of the Cineform is going in the direction of 2k and 4k these days.
 
Green Hornet said:
Hey Cloud,

The Canon XF305 wil be here in June. (Not the camera I am talking about, but still has 4:2:2 color and pro audio at least)

It's going to be about $7 grand though.

3CCD's and all but Mpeg compression sucks.

Canon should team with Cineform codec and Kill them all.
Most of the Cineform is going in the direction of 2k and 4k these days.
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thats 3 cmos my friend. not 3CCD

and im not getting what your trying to say here?
 
The great thing about this announcement, though, (unlike the Scarlet's ongoing faux announcements) is that this really does signal the beginning of the end. Price points will fluctuate over the next decade, but I think by the end of 2010 affordable, (near) full frame, interchangeable glass VIDEO cameras will be available to us.

I think this is one of those rare times when the consumer (primarily because of the internet) has actually made a company produce what they wanted (opposed to all the companies telling the consumer what they want). I think this is a huge victory for the indie filmmakers who have been out there asking for a truly full functioning product at a reasonable price (because we all knew that it was possible, but we also knew that it could hinder the corporations' ability to price out their own line of cameras).

I have to think that the recession actually helped all this come about for us. Honestly I think all of the big camera companies have been playing games for awhile now, purposely not giving the consumer the be-all-end-all camera because they knew it could hurt overall sales. But now they're in a position where they HAVE to compete for those precious dollars. If Canon and Sony and Nikon really do follow in Panny's footsteps, then by the end of 2010 it will be like the pre/post DVX100 world.

Pretty awesome stuff.

(and someone mentioned that these would make great rentals. I think they'd also make great purchases FOR rentals for people that do videography work. Most of the rental companies do not rush out to buy the latest cams because they have so much invested already that they're stretching for ROI. Zacuto only recently started offering DSLRs -- and I'm not even sure they're on their website yet for rent! I think 12K or 18K invested on a few of these cameras could yield a tremendous ROI assuming you're in any sort of largely populated area, city or university. When I think of buying almost anything else for 12K here in Chicago -- no stock on the planet is going to offer the 2 year return a couple of these cameras will. And I'm pretty certain if the EX1 can retain its value so too will these, or the cams that come out that are similar to their make.)
 
The questions will be who comes out with a chip that is a true 24fps chip not a line skipped chip. And what form factor does the consumer want. A dedicated video camera or the dslr form factor minus the line skip.

Panny for 6k will probably be slightly modified but my feeling is it will be line skipped. The plus side of the panny is the choice of lenses.

Scarlet is 2/3rds in the same price range and I think Jannards going to stick to his guns and keep the 2/3rds but I feel he's going to have to break down and release a super35mm chip to compete in this price range. Which might upset the s35 scarlet purchasers. The advantage of the scarlet is its the only true non line skip chip with great post image tweakability. Although people have been abandoning using the current red for line skipped vdslr's for commercials , rock videos, etc. He's going to have to rethink the 2/3rds.

Sony doesn't have a track record in this area yet and we won't know what chip design is going in their just announced cam. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they get it right but I think it will priced like the panny.

Canon has had rumors floating that they have been testing a raw version of their vdslr's. They have had meetings at skywalker on what the pros want. They are apparently designing cine like lenses. But will their chip line skip? they know its a problem. They have had the jump on everyone in this area and I think they will have the best option with the best price in the vdslr area. Most people have no problem using a dslr instead of a dedicated video camera and have all the tools to make vdslrs work for cine shooting so if they keep the form factor the same but with hi res flip out screen and a non line skipped chip with some firmware updates like peaking in a slightly higher price range , but lower than panny and sony, they will be the contender.

Also, Is it possible to have a high heat non line skipped chip at 24fps in a vdslr body?

Even though the panny is coming in Dec you probably won't be able to get one till Feb 2011. Sony says around this time too. Canon has been popping out cams fast lately but nothing coming this year with the feature set we want. Scarlet 2/3rds around sept 2010 but will anyone care for the 2/3rds and I think theres going to be a change in the scarlet that might push it back or maybe a revised version that won't upset s35 scarlet purchasers in 2011.

Next year around this time we will know who does it right.
 
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Green Hornet said:
The $6000 price point is a 3 x jump for people wanting to do video as best as possible.
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For you, maybe. But for those of us who do it for a living, it's pennies.

Many simply don't have that kind of money, but do have enough to BUILD a 9K camera OVER TIME.
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There are many, many products on the market. This isn't a hobbyist product, this is a broadcast-ready product from the broadcast division of the leading broadcast manufacturer in the world.

Let me put it this way -- just because it's not what YOU wanted, doesn't mean that it's in any way deficient for its intended market.

IF Panasonic wants customers back, I think they need a $1,500 camera that WOWS us, and then follow up with a 3k camera, and then a 6K camera.
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Panasonic has plenty of customers. They just don't have DSLR customers. And that's because the broadcast division doesn't make such a product.


I also said they (Panasonic ) needed to slash the price of P2 cards, or they would have many jump ship on that whole product line...and they (customers) did.
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Okay, looks like you need a MAJOR reality check. A couple of years ago, Panasonic announced that there were 60,000 P2 cameras in the field. This year, they announced that there were 140,000 P2 cameras in the field.

I think it would have been a game changer (well it would have slowwed the bleeding) if Panasonic used the P2 card as a loss leader, to keep and gain their P2 customer base.
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Your perception is absolutely not supported by reality! P2 is the overwhelmingly dominant player in broadcast. It has been the biggest "game changer" since the original BetaSP. Panasonic P2 has over 80% of the market.

Consumer/DSLR users are not the broadcast/ENG market, which is the "big prize" in the video production industry, and which Panasonic pretty much owns outright at this point.

You can say "it's not what I want" or "I can't afford it and I don't know anyone else who can", those are fine. But to make sweeping proclamations and declarations of "fact" which are so totally wrong -- that's just not a good idea and it has to be corrected.
 
Green Hornet said:
Don't forget, when the Panasonic $6k camera comes out (4th quarter of 2010).

Canon will be releasing their Video camera that takes 35mm lenses.
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Please stop asserting speculation as fact. Canon has already said they will NOT be making any 35mm-sized video camera this year.
 
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