C200: Burned out two DC in ports in 3 Weeks - Need advice!

[Tim Nitsch]

I’m at a loss here and I need some help.

So I have a C200 that I run off Core SWX HyperCore 98 Gold Mounts via a Anton Bauer Gold Mount to C200 battery plate.

A few weeks ago I went on a shoot. Everything worked fine. Go home, and don’t touch my camera for a few days. I went to power it up and I noticed that it was drawing power from the BP-A30 battery and not the brick.

I thought that was weird so I swapped bricks. Still pulling power from the BP. Remove the BP all together, and the C200 won’t power up at all.

I think, okay, maybe the plate went bad. Grab my Wooden Camera D-Tap to C200 power cable... Nothing. Grab the Canon AC pack... Nothing. Put the BP back in, powers up fine but is still only drawing power from the BP.

Email Canon, they hadn’t heard of this issue before and ask me to send it in. So I do.

They needed to replace the main PCB board, so $1000 later I get my camera back. I test the camera with the Gold Mount plate, works fine. Use the WC cable for another test, works fine. Plug the Gold Mount plate back in... nothing, dead again, none of the other cables work anymore either after that. So I have to send it back to Canon again.

I think, okay, it’s got to be the GM plate, maybe there’s a short in it somewhere and it burned out the port again.

But here’s the kicker... when my C200 was being repaired, I rented another C200 for a 3 day shoot and I used that same GM plate and batteries and it worked flawlessly the whole time.

So I’m at a loss. Did I just happen to get a bad replacement PCB board that failed the exact same way, or is the plate, cable, or battery bad?

What are your thoughts? How can I test each component to make sure they are functioning properly?

 

[Paul F]

Good notes.
If the battery cables have a short, the fuses in the V-mount plates would blow. From your notes, the fuses did not blow, because when the camera came back from repair, the cables worked. But check the fuses on all the equipment. To check for a short, get this cheap meter from Harbor Freight and check the cables. If you don't know how, read up on how to check for shorts with an ohm meter.
I don't know how a short in a cable would damage the DC input on a camera. I suppose if they don't have the internals properly protected (a 10 cent part), the battery could backfeed into a shorted cable and do some damage.
Did you have the battery installed when you did your tests? If not, then the supposing above is invalid.

 

[Tim Nitsch]

I believe the first test was with the GM plate with no BP-A30 attached, and it worked fine. The second test was with the WC D-Tap cable straight to the D-Tap out on the HyperCore to the camera with BP-A30 attached, and it worked fine. Third test was with GM Plate and BP-A30 attached and that’s when I realized the DC port wasn’t working.

That obviously makes me think it has something to do with the combination of GM plate and BP-A30, but like I mentioned before, I used literally the exact same components on the other C200 and it worked fine. So that throws a wrench into that theory. I do have access to a multi meter so I’ll give that a shot and see if anything is giving bad readings.

My gut is telling me it’s the battery plate, but I don’t have any hard evidence to back that up. I can successfully power my monitor via the D-Tap out on the battery plate so power is flowing correctly to at least that port. I’ll try test the lemo plug and see if I’m getting the same power reading.

 

[Michel]

or the first time they charged you for the repair but didn't do it.
could be a honest mistake of course.

did the camera work with the canon power brick when you received it back?

 

[puredrifting]

Different but related issue. My C200 I have had for almost two year now, when it was brand new, I built it out to a full shoulder rig with the Wooden battery plate and V-Mounts. To save weight, I used only the V-Mounts (no BP on board) on a shoot and the camera would power on and work on tripod fine, but every time I would remove the C200 from the tripod and heft it up on my shoulder while powered on, I noticed the camera would reboot itself? I then would put in the stock BP-A30 and then it would behave fine when hefted to to my shoulder, still powered by the V-Mount. This was a brand new C200, brand new Wooden plate, brand new V-Mount so nothing was loose or worn out. I checked the connector with a voltmeter, it was fine and the connection seems fine but the DC obviously momentarily loses power when hefted onto my shoulder. Last week, I was prepping for a shoot and had the camera, on the tripod, once again powered only by the DC in and V-mount. I was checking a new wireless video transmitter I had on the camera and when I swiveled the camera on the tripod, with just the V-mount, the camera shut itself down and rebooted. So the issue is still there. I tried a friends IDX battery plate and it does the same thing. The conclusion I have come to is that the DC in on at least my C200, is somehow defective, the internal fit, even though externally it seems tight, must be loose? I pretty much have given up using the V-mounts without a BP-A30 on the camera, then it is fine because the BP-A30 handles that microsecond when the V-Mount and the DC in loses power.

It sucks and I have heard of several other C200 and C300 MKII users who have had DC in issues, now adding you to the list.

My C200 is out of warranty and my workaround works so I am not sending in the camera to pay I am sure at least $300.00-$500.00 to fix this issue, at least now. I never use AC power and 90% of the time, I just use the BP batteries so for the rare times when I use the V-Mount, I can live with the compromise.
If it's killing your whole DC input, you obviously can't.

 

[Run&Gun]

Different but realted issue. My C200 I have had for almost two year now, when it was brand new, I built it out to a full shoulder rig with the Wooden battery plate and V-Mounts. To save weight, I used only the V-Mounts (no BP on board) on a shoot and the camera would power on and work on tripod fine, but every time I would remove the C200 from the tripod and heft it up on my shoulder while powered on, I noticed the camera would reboot itself? I then would put in the stock BP-A30 and then it would behave fine when hefted to to my shoulder, still powered by the V-Mount. This was a brand new C200, brand new Wooden plate, brand new V-Mount so nothing was loose or worn out. I checked the connector with a voltmeter, it was fine and the connection seems fine but the DC obviously momentarily loses power when hefted onto my shoulder. Last week, I was prepping for a shoot and had the camera, on the tripod, once again powered only by the DC in and V-mount. I was checking a new wireless video transmitter I had on the camera and when I swiveled the camera on the tripod, with just the V-mount, the camera shut itself down and rebooted. So the issue is still there. I tried a friends IDX battery plate and it does the same thing. The conclusion I have come to is that the DC in on at least my C200, is somehow defective, the internal fit, even though externally it seems tight, must be loose? I pretty much have given up using the V-mounts without a BP-A30 on the camera, then it is fine because the BP-A30 handles that microsecond when the V-Mount and the DC in loses power.

It sucks and I have heard of several other C200 and C300 MKII users who have had DC in issues, now adding you to the list.

My C200 is out of warranty and my workaround works so I am not sending in the camera to pay I am sure at least $300.00-$500.00 to fix this issue, at least now. I never use AC power and 90% of the time, I just use the BP batteries so for the rare times when I use the V-Mount, I can live with the compromise.
If it's killing your whole DC input, you obviously can't.

And also a well known issue with the original C300's was a ground loop audio buzz created when powering the camera from an external battery plate into the DC in while simultaneously powering a wireless receiver or VF(or about anything else) from it, as well. It sucks having to worry about TWO different batteries while shooting. One in the camera FOR the camera and then a brick to power everything else. AND I've still run into audio issue, at times. These cameras still aren't built to the same tolerances and standards as Sony, Panasonic or Arri cameras when it comes to things like power and proper filtering and isolation.

 

[chris f]

I'm not sure what brand of battery or what connector it was, but my buddy pretty much had the same problem with his C200. He bought a V-Mount adapter and on his first shoot the same thing happened and ever since he's just had to use BP batteries for the camera and then uses the V-Mount adapter to power all his accessories. I think he's been to busy to send it in for repair.

 

[puredrifting]

...These cameras still aren't built to the same tolerances and standards as Sony, Panasonic or Arri cameras when it comes to things like power and proper filtering and isolation.

I tend to agree with you here. People who haven't been doing this for a while probably never experienced the pre-EOS C lineup of Canon Cameras that a lot of pros shot with like the XL-1H.
Those cameras were cool but really built flimsy. The EOS C line are much better than the older Canons but I agree, there are some construction and ergonomics issues that really are embarassing for a "professional" camera.
Sony, I used to think were bulletproof and I think their broadcast 2/3", Venice, F5/55 still are, but the FS5/FS7 is flimsy (saggy loupe/EVF/the plastic all over the camera is decidedly cheap looking and feeling) and the A7 cameras are just not very reliable at all it seems.
That's one of the things I am eager to check out when I get hands-on with the C500 MKII, is it any better built than a C300 MKII or my C200?

 

[puredrifting]

I'm not sure what brand of battery or what connector it was, but my buddy pretty much had the same problem with his C200. He bought a V-Mount adapter and on his first shoot the same thing happened and ever since he's just had to use BP batteries for the camera and then uses the V-Mount adapter to power all his accessories. I think he's been to busy to send it in for repair.

Sounds very familiar. You've never experienced that with your C200?

 

[laverdir]

I tend to agree with you here. People who haven't been doing this for a while probably never experienced the pre-EOS C lineup of Canon Cameras that a lot of pros shot with like the XL-1H.
Those cameras were cool but really built flimsy.

Hey, my XL-1s has Magnesium Alloy Body.

 

[puredrifting]

Hey, my XL-1s has Magnesium Alloy Body.

OMG, production company I was at at the time it came out bought four XL-1Hs. All four were in the trash can in less than a year, they broke down all of the time. Interesting concept for a camera but our DVX-100s buried the XL-1Hs and laughed on their graves.
Out of all of the cameras I ever owned, I look back with the most fondness on the DVX100. It made me so much profit it's ridiculous, the image was great, it was a dream to shoot with. I can say, I liked it better than my Betacams, F900, almost everything.
The only camera I ever liked almost as much was my Sony DSR-500 WS, which was also a GREAT camera in its day. My current cameras, I don't have nearly as much affection for as the little lowly DVX100.

 

[laverdir]

Well, my XL-1s is still functioning perfectly. Center of the foam that protects mic is missing, but that's it.

And you have to admit that Canon batteries are really first class, still a bit less then 2 h from original BP-930.
Expensive? Yes...

 

[IanTheM]

I’m at a loss here and I need some help.

So I have a C200 that I run off Core SWX HyperCore 98 Gold Mounts via a CoreSWX Gold Mount to C200 battery plate.

A few weeks ago I went on a shoot. Everything worked fine. Go home, and don’t touch my camera for a few days. I went to power it up and I noticed that it was drawing power from the BP-A30 battery and not the brick.

I thought that was weird so I swapped bricks. Still pulling power from the BP. Remove the BP all together, and the C200 won’t power up at all.

I think, okay, maybe the plate went bad. Grab my Wooden Camera D-Tap to C200 power cable... Nothing. Grab the Canon AC pack... Nothing. Put the BP back in, powers up fine but is still only drawing power from the BP.

Email Canon, they hadn’t heard of this issue before and ask me to send it in. So I do.

They needed to replace the main PCB board, so $1000 later I get my camera back. I test the camera with the Gold Mount plate, works fine. Use the WC cable for another test, works fine. Plug the Gold Mount plate back in... nothing, dead again, none of the other cables work anymore either after that. So I have to send it back to Canon again.

I think, okay, it’s got to be the GM plate, maybe there’s a short in it somewhere and it burned out the port again.

But here’s the kicker... when my C200 was being repaired, I rented another C200 for a 3 day shoot and I used that same GM plate and batteries and it worked flawlessly the whole time.

So I’m at a loss. Did I just happen to get a bad replacement PCB board that failed the exact same way, or is the plate, cable, or battery bad?

What are your thoughts? How can I test each component to make sure they are functioning properly?

We had this exact problem with our C200, the DC in went bad and they had to replace the PCB. Luckily it was under warranty. We have a small power bistro box going between the battery and the camera, as a safety, though. I would worry about the battery going directly into the camera through the plate without any regulation, the DC in port design on the camera doesn't seem to be the greatest. After a shoot up north our SDI out stopped working, so hoping that it's not a gigantic fix like the PCB getting replaced.

 

[chris f]

Sounds very familiar. You've never experienced that with your C200?

I bought the wooden camera C200 gold mount battery plate, but to be honest I don’t think I’ve ever used it because in my handheld configuration that puts the weight over the limit on my easy rig minimax. However I would hope that since it is a wooden camera product and I only use original Anton Bauer gold mound batteries that I would hope the quality control would prevent something like this from happening, although I will admit that I’m a little nervous to try it out now…

 

[puredrifting]

I bought the wooden camera C200 gold mount battery plate, but to be honest I don’t think I’ve ever used it because in my handheld configuration that puts the weight over the limit on my easy rig minimax. However I would hope that since it is a wooden camera product and I only use original Anton Bauer gold mound batteries that I would hope the quality control would prevent something like this from happening, although I will admit that I’m a little nervous to try it out now…

I think the QC issues are with the DC input on the C200/C300 MKII, not with Wooden's stuff.
Besides my own camera, I've seen enough complaints and ports fried to think this is an endemic issue that I hope they have mitigated on the C500 MKII.

 

[Tim Nitsch]

UPDATE

Got my camera back.

Canon said "Your product has been examined and it was found that excess voltage was applied to the circuit board so that the power supply did not function properly"

So... I just ordered a new gold mount plate (Wooden Camera WC Pro Plate) because I can't trust my old one, even thought I still don't know for sure if that's the cause.

Should I be worried about my batteries too?

 

[Paul F]

Mmmm. I have to ask where this excess voltage came from. A battery plate just passes the voltage on from the battery (typically). A V-mount batteries voltage range (charged to discharged) should be compatible with the input voltage range of the C200. Canon specifies a maximum voltage of 16.7 volts, which is the typical max voltage of a Li-on battery (I may be wrong here. I can't find specifics). So if you are just connecting V-mounts to it, there should not be a problem. I don't see how a battery plate or a v-mount battery could harm the camera. Measure the output of the battery when fully charged. Is it over 16.7 volts? Of course, Canon should have some headroom in that spec. It shouldn't break if you input 16.8V.

The only other option is that the DC inout is sensitive to static charges and you are zapping it (poor design).

 

[Tim Nitsch]

Mmmm. I have to ask where this excess voltage came from. A battery plate just passes the voltage on from the battery (typically). A V-mount batteries voltage range (charged to discharged) should be compatible with the input voltage range of the C200. Canon specifies a maximum voltage of 16.7 volts, which is the typical max voltage of a Li-on battery (I may be wrong here. I can't find specifics). So if you are just connecting V-mounts to it, there should not be a problem. I don't see how a battery plate or a v-mount battery could harm the camera. Measure the output of the battery when fully charged. Is it over 16.7 volts? Of course, Canon should have some headroom in that spec. It shouldn't break if you input 16.8V.

The only other option is that the DC inout is sensitive to static charges and you are zapping it (poor design).

That's exactly what I thought, it just doesn't make sense.

I tested the plate, cables, and batteries, as much as I could with a multi-meter and it didn't show any obvious shorts in cables or irregularities in battery voltages, so once again I'm at a loss.

The mind numbing part is that I've had my C200 since 2017 and its run flawless with the same plate, batteries, and cables for two years and now all of a sudden something is frying the port.

My gut is telling me there's a fault in the battery plate, but admittedly I have zero evidence to back that up.

I guess the only thing I can do is to keep track to what is being plugged in and if it fries again, then I'll be able to zero in on the faulty piece of equipment.

I don't know what else I can do.

 

[Paul F]

...

I think, okay, maybe the plate went bad. Grab my Wooden Camera D-Tap to C200 power cable... Nothing. Grab the Canon AC pack... Nothing. Put the BP back in, powers up fine but is still only drawing power from the BP.

Email Canon, they hadn’t heard of this issue before and ask me to send it in. So I do.

They needed to replace the main PCB board, so $1000 later I get my camera back. I test the camera with the Gold Mount plate, works fine. Use the WC cable for another test, works fine. Plug the Gold Mount plate back in... nothing, dead again, none of the other cables work anymore either after that. So I have to send it back to Canon again.

I think, okay, it’s got to be the GM plate, maybe there’s a short in it somewhere and it burned out the port again.

But here’s the kicker... when my C200 was being repaired, I rented another C200 for a 3 day shoot and I used that same GM plate and batteries and it worked flawlessly the whole time.

This sequence defies logic, which makes it interesting to me. If your recall is correct, then either there is an intermittent fault (with the batteries or plate )that causes the failure (which makes no sense because there doesn't seem to be a failure mode that would cause excess voltage) or the camera is failing on its own coincidentally with changes of equipment, which is also nonsensical. I'd like to analyze this. I've spent a lot of time doing fault analysis of high reliability electronics, so this interests me. If you care to, let's take this offline. I'll pm.

 

[adolgin]

Most likely "excess voltage was applied to the circuit board" is a generic explanation used by a repair technician. In fact it is very difficult to establish the real cause of this kind of damage. My gut feeling there is a design problem with the power board, possibly static protection (ESD) part of the circuit is not robust enough to take a beating.