Blackmagic Pocket 6K Pro with Internal ND Filters and EVF

Yep my experience with BM is to have an external power for main shooting and if you need a shot from inside a fridge or on a car dashboard be very happy that internal power will get you that shot without having to rig a battery.
 
Overall im battling in my head the value of an AF free camera. AF does some wonderful things like a bobbing interview or dancer. The sort of things you see in a YT demo of AF. But often these shots are done after a menu dive that takes so long you would have missed the shot. Im still finding that with MF I know that Im interested in the onions not the chopping board or the hands or the knife.

It can take a lot of time to tell AF that onions not hands or knife is your thing. By which time they are chopped and in the pan leaving you dreaming of the simplicity of MF and your director wondering why you missed another shot.

My main desire for AF is some specific shots..
-on a gimbal
-telephoto walk towards
-in the sun where you cant MF cos you cant see your screen
-macro product slider towards

As a handheld walkabout camera Id probably be happy with MF especially where one can see because one has some NITs and also an EVF.

Overall Im a fan of the BM image and meues doubtless this camera matches or bests the ones before. Although cost is not nothing.
 
I agree about AF but with these style of cameras, in many ways AF acts like the "third hand". Hand holding a DLSRM is complicated if the scene changes. You need support, guidance and well as free fingers and hands to adjust. It is often too much to do everything. With good peaking one can do pretty well but your hand position is pretty much glued to one approach (for me that is left hand under the lens for focus and right hand on the camera body). This position favors low camera level shooting for the most stable shots. IBIS really helps.

In contrast, with reliable AF and IBIS one can hold the camera in many different ways and get solid results. Most importantly, following the needs of the filming, not the ergonomics.

But in reality, a lot of the paid work ends up being manual focus. It is heavily dependent on the type of work that comes your way. From a value point of view, one can't go wrong with this new BM camera for $3,000 with the viewfinder.
 
Bassman2003 said:
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But in reality, a lot of the paid work ends up being manual focus.
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There's a lot of paid work I do (interviews with unmanned angles, gimbal and slider stuff) that benefits hugely from autofocus. And even in handheld and tripod situations where you're happy to manually focus, there are times when it's nice to turn AF on for a particular shot.

You KNOW that if the Alexa had an autofocus update and arri came out with fancy autofocus lenses, you'd be reading interviews in american cinematographer from some DP who used it about all the options it opened up.

Certainly, for shallow DOF walk-and-talks where keeping a face in focus is the only challenge, it could probably do a better job than almost any human.

The biggest problem with AF that I see is how it limits your lens selection.

But generally speaking, as with all features, I'd rather have a camera that had it than a camera that didn't even if I use it infrequently.

But for the mostly OMB stuff I do and wide use of gimbal, autofocus is a treat
 
Do you see this unit finding its way onto your serious work, John? I feel like the UMP 12K is already small enough for you to do handheld (and smaller might be too small) and you don't really need the sensitivity boost on your lit sets, no?
 
ahalpert said:
Do you see this unit finding its way onto your serious work, John? I feel like the UMP 12K is already small enough for you to do handheld (and smaller might be too small) and you don't really need the sensitivity boost on your lit sets, no?
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I've not used the 6K at all previously on my sets. Occasionally the 4K because with an MFT lens it's small.

And yes, you're right, the 12K isn't much bigger for the style of shooting I do and I much prefer it's look from the RGBW sensor.

So in all probability this is a more useful camera to me as an EF mount camera for scouts or as a directors viewfinder on set. It doesn't tick a lot of boxes FOR ME in the type of work I do.

JB
 
Also my BMD branded 3500 MH batteries are lasting over an hour recording regular frame rates to CFAST, using 100 percent brightness screen and some EVF....

JB[/QUOTE]

Single battery or via grip?
 
A lot of the potential buyers complaining that the BMD PCC 6K Pro lacks usable AF don't get it, it is a mini cinema camera. Not really the right tool for events, weddings and documentary UNLESS you are cool with MF only and
many are. But in my mind, after shooting with the PCC 6K and the UMP G2, if AF is important to you, buy a Sony or Canon. If it's not, the PCC 6K Pro opens up a huge new value equation as far as bang for the buck and they really can
make amazing images that compete far, far above their price level. I like the AF on my C200/300 MKII and even on the X-T3s but I would still like a PCC 6K Pro because it's just a different tool for different situations and I like the look and
features. BMD is killing it. If they ever do get great AF, they could be a real threat to Sony and Canon. Their reliability seems better these days too than a few years ago.
 
puredrifting said:
A lot of the potential buyers complaining that the BMD PCC 6K Pro lacks usable AF don't get it, it is a mini cinema camera. Not really the right tool for events, weddings and documentary UNLESS you are cool with MF only and many are.
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I think I agree with you, but then BMD says on their webpage for the camera:

Pocket Cinema Camera has the professional features you need for feature film, television programming and documentaries, however now these same features can be used to revolutionize other types of work such as blog videos, YouTube content and more.... Imagine getting film quality on independent film, music videos, weddings, corporate videos, documentaries and more!
Click to expand...
 
puredrifting said:
A lot of the potential buyers complaining that the BMD PCC 6K Pro lacks usable AF don't get it, it is a mini cinema camera. Not really the right tool for events, weddings and documentary UNLESS you are cool with MF only and
many are. But in my mind, after shooting with the PCC 6K and the UMP G2, if AF is important to you, buy a Sony or Canon. If it's not, the PCC 6K Pro opens up a huge new value equation as far as bang for the buck and they really can
make amazing images that compete far, far above their price level. I like the AF on my C200/300 MKII and even on the X-T3s but I would still like a PCC 6K Pro because it's just a different tool for different situations and I like the look and
features. BMD is killing it. If they ever do get great AF, they could be a real threat to Sony and Canon. Their reliability seems better these days too than a few years ago.
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the thing is - I would like to use the bit-depth, codec, and color science of the pocket for anything. I don't see why I don't get to use that for weddings or events.

Autofocus is a separate tool. It helps me nail focus on complex camera movements and, just as if not more importantly, it lets me keep both hands on the grips for stability. why can't I have my thick color and keep my autofocus too?

I think "cinema camera" is sort of a facetious distinction because every little tool can get used on a movie and the most serious camera can get used for a rich kid's birthday party. yes, the exposure/control/ergonomics/connectivity features that the camera has or lacks are important, but still...
 
Jim Feeley said:
I think I agree with you, but then BMD says on their webpage for the camera:
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Yeah, but that's written by marketing people. I'm looking at what experience tells me. Trying to manually focus 6K with
what is likely a focus by wire still lens when tracking moving subjects with a moving camera is basically pointless.
Having an AC or two with FIZ control, a Teradek and blocking actors while using a quality cinema lens is a whole different world.
 
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ahalpert said:
...I think "cinema camera" is sort of a facetious distinction.
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It can be a shorthand for those who have shot both style cameras and understand what that means away from marketing hype and on set. I agree, the lines have blurred and not saying that
you can't shoot a wedding with a PCC 6K Pro. Of course you can, but your keeper ratio will go down if you fail to nail focus on the huge 6K raster, which means unhappy brides, right? Wrong tool
for weddings and events for most of us. I found shooting exteriors with the PCC 6K, it was pretty challenging to truly NAIL that focus, especially with moving subjects like birds and boats.

They'll likely eventually figure out or license effective AF, the world is changing but it's obviously not their primary goal right now and I am sure that
the lack of usable AF isn't handcapping sales too much.
 
puredrifting said:
It can be a shorthand for those who have shot both style cameras and understand what that means away from marketing hype and on set. I agree, the lines have blurred and not saying that
you can't shoot a wedding with a PCC 6K Pro. Of course you can, but your keeper ratio will go down if you fail to nail focus on the huge 6K raster, which means unhappy brides, right? Wrong tool
for weddings and events for most of us. I found shooting exteriors with the PCC 6K, it was pretty challenging to truly NAIL that focus, especially with moving subjects like birds and boats.

They'll likely eventually figure out or license effective AF, the world is changing but it's obviously not their primary goal right now and I am sure that
the lack of usable AF isn't handcapping sales too much.
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I mean, I don't think that nailing focus in 6K is any harder than in HD as long as you're delivering in HD and not cropping in in post, no? I shot manual focus exclusively until last september including full-frame 4K gimbal stuff and was never dissatisfied with my keeper rate. But AF expands my shot vocabulary and aids my stability by freeing the left hand.

And the thing is - if the technology exists, it has to be considered in the equation of the quality you can deliver.

The main thing I want from the pocket is bit-depth but also codec and, thirdly, color science. After that, video-oriented exposure controls and guides (although the false color on my ikan gives me solid exposure control of the A7SIII, and I couldn't lose the external monitor even if I switched to the pocket)

Undoubtedly, if you sell a $3k lightweight camera with beautiful color that can shoot in low-light scenarios, anyone who could put that to use will give it a think and a comparison
 
Jim Feeley said:
Yes, but that marketing explains why some potential buyers are upset about the AF. So their complaints are understandable, if misguided.
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I dunno about "upset" about AF - but once the technology is out there, everything else will be compared to it. Now that Teslas exist, internal combustion sports cars will be compared to the tesla 0-60 etc even though they didnt get any slower.

And look - big movies use all sorts of fancy focus tools. I think Brawley posted a shot of what looked like a heat map on his AC's display which was some sort of lidar distance readout of the shot. I read that on uncut gems they used something similar (maybe a new version of cinetape) to get precision distance on quick-moving improv staging while shooting with very shallow DOF (amateurs!).

It's not like ACs are still getting by with a tape measure and a good eye for judging distance. I've also seen big focus buzzes make the cut in big budget tv and movies.

Every tool has its time and place and its upsides and downsides. But the latest generation of autofocus have made me a believer, and I consider myself an excellent focus puller.

Also - if a pocket is your A camera, then you probably can't afford a top notch focus puller anyway, right? Since it distinguishes itself from the UMP by being cheaper and more light-sensitive (and also smaller but the UMP is pretty small). Maybe even not if it's your B camera
 
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The high end productions - not that I should be venturing into that discussion with Charles and JB posting - use an external ultrasound focus system with the separately powered motors and all controlled by the AC/focus puller remotely via his own monitor off a wireless signal. The high end cameras don't have a sensor controlled auto focus, either contrast or phase detect until one gets down to C500MKII and its dual-pixel system.
 
I would add though, that the P6K ISO-100 even without the ND filters avails itself of 2-stops less exposure than my GH5S in V-Log; 400 is the minimum ISO.
 
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