KyleProhaska
Veteran
Glad to see a grab from the camera. Looks pretty solid and resolute and who knows how much sharper it might get with a better lens on it. Very cool 
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Other: BlackMagic Cinema camera!!!! 2.5k for 3k...
- Thread starter Mickey G
- Start date
Well ok, I've been on the BM site and looking at the specs required to run DaVinci. OK, I've been playing around with lite, and know I'll need 2 graphics cards, but what, realisticly is the minimum someone on a tight budget (The sort to be enthused about this cam) would have to put together?
Current spec i7 2600 o/c to 4.4 GHz, 8gig ram, 128 GB SSD boot 2x 1TB non-raid storage, Quadro 600 graphics. Currently running MC6 (Got to via multiple upgrades) Will budget for GTX 580 and a raid DAS box. Anything more for 2.5K raw? What *could* I gat away with?
Current spec i7 2600 o/c to 4.4 GHz, 8gig ram, 128 GB SSD boot 2x 1TB non-raid storage, Quadro 600 graphics. Currently running MC6 (Got to via multiple upgrades) Will budget for GTX 580 and a raid DAS box. Anything more for 2.5K raw? What *could* I gat away with?
PaulVortex
Member
"...Story is all that matters..." --Hitler.
Instant Classic.
People are wondering how Digital Bolex backers are reacting... It's not Digital Bolex backers who need to be kicking themselves right now. We are getting what we want... Like the Hitler video, I actually wonder how people who have just bought the latest HDSLRs are reacting.
Instant Classic.
People are wondering how Digital Bolex backers are reacting... It's not Digital Bolex backers who need to be kicking themselves right now. We are getting what we want... Like the Hitler video, I actually wonder how people who have just bought the latest HDSLRs are reacting.
The thing I am most excited about is dynamic range. For this price we've finally crossed that dynamic range limitation that separates a filmic look from the pack of baked in dslrs and camcorders. Higher dynamic range plus raw workflow if you want it are huge options at this price point.
I feel like the baseline has just shifted with this camera. Before we were looking at clean alias free 1080P as the baseline, but with 13 stops of dynamic range and RAW plus a built in established professional editing workflow I can honestly say that for me this could be the DSLR killer. Unless the DSLR's can keep up in the dynamic range department it becomes very hard for me to justify building a shoot around one when this camera is so much better suited with a pro workflow. DSLR's still have their uses, but between a more professional camera and having to jump through workarounds this camera is like a breath of sanity.
Bravo BMD, nicely done. I hope they sell a million of these and then release another one next year at NAB based on all the feedback that will come in the next year. Very excited to see footage and shoot with this thing this summer.
I feel like the baseline has just shifted with this camera. Before we were looking at clean alias free 1080P as the baseline, but with 13 stops of dynamic range and RAW plus a built in established professional editing workflow I can honestly say that for me this could be the DSLR killer. Unless the DSLR's can keep up in the dynamic range department it becomes very hard for me to justify building a shoot around one when this camera is so much better suited with a pro workflow. DSLR's still have their uses, but between a more professional camera and having to jump through workarounds this camera is like a breath of sanity.
Bravo BMD, nicely done. I hope they sell a million of these and then release another one next year at NAB based on all the feedback that will come in the next year. Very excited to see footage and shoot with this thing this summer.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
As a M43 user I fail to see exactly how much of an advantage the M43 lenses have over EF lenses. These days I typically shoot a lot with my 20mm f1.7 lens which I find to be plenty wide in a lot of situations. I know this is far from ultra wide but I find it works very well in most situations. That 20mm is a normal 35mm rating so any 20mm EF lens should give equal results. I don't know as much about EF lenses but I found a lot of lenses in the 14mm to 24mm range. Maybe they were not super fast but you can get fast 24mm EF lenses.
A lot of "lowlight" M43 shooters now use one of two 24mm lenses which are even longer. This should be a good match for the many fast 24mm EF lenses I have found.
M43 is plagued by a lot of slow lenses on the long end and really I was surprised to see so many better options for long primes and zooms with EF. There isn't a single decent zoom lens for M43 that is fast. On the ultra wide end M43 has a 14mm but it is f2.5. There are a couple of other ultra wide lenses but they are very slow. Olympus does have a 12mm 2.0 lens but thats really currently the only option. I still think at 12mm and 14mm EF actually has more options.
Finally many of us M43 users shoot with old manual Nikon and FD lenses and on the wide fast end are typically 24mm and 28mm at f2.0 or f2.8. So again not very many options for us on the ultra wide end but we use them to great success.
It is a bummer for me to have to buy all new lenses but I really fail to see how the current crop of EF lenses is a problem. I think M43 lens options are a lot more limited and outside of 3 or 4 lenses wouldn't really offer very many options for the BM camera. I plan on keeping my GH1 to shoot stills so it does suck that I have to have two sets of lenses. I might consider selling it and getting a Canon DSLR but I really love my GH1. The size and easy of use are great and I love how much better the video footage can look when I'm on vacation. With that said I actually do think EF lenses are a better choice for the BM camera. To say I wish it was M43 instead would be a selfish reason.
A lot of "lowlight" M43 shooters now use one of two 24mm lenses which are even longer. This should be a good match for the many fast 24mm EF lenses I have found.
M43 is plagued by a lot of slow lenses on the long end and really I was surprised to see so many better options for long primes and zooms with EF. There isn't a single decent zoom lens for M43 that is fast. On the ultra wide end M43 has a 14mm but it is f2.5. There are a couple of other ultra wide lenses but they are very slow. Olympus does have a 12mm 2.0 lens but thats really currently the only option. I still think at 12mm and 14mm EF actually has more options.
Finally many of us M43 users shoot with old manual Nikon and FD lenses and on the wide fast end are typically 24mm and 28mm at f2.0 or f2.8. So again not very many options for us on the ultra wide end but we use them to great success.
It is a bummer for me to have to buy all new lenses but I really fail to see how the current crop of EF lenses is a problem. I think M43 lens options are a lot more limited and outside of 3 or 4 lenses wouldn't really offer very many options for the BM camera. I plan on keeping my GH1 to shoot stills so it does suck that I have to have two sets of lenses. I might consider selling it and getting a Canon DSLR but I really love my GH1. The size and easy of use are great and I love how much better the video footage can look when I'm on vacation. With that said I actually do think EF lenses are a better choice for the BM camera. To say I wish it was M43 instead would be a selfish reason.
Well......this has thrown a wrench in everything I was planning. I'm fairly new to the cinematography game and have been making it by with my Canon 60D and doing some Youtube shots with friends and some local actors. I've gotten some inquiries about shooting a couple weddings and a couple of music videos so I decided to upgrade my equipment in the hope that maybe I could one day make a living off of this
Anyways, long story short, I have $10,000 on hand, was planning on going AF100 route, but decided to wait till NAB. Then the FS700 was announced and I started leaning that direction even though it would most likely suck up my entire budget. Now that BMCC has came along and I have the choice of spending less money on a nice piece of equipment which leaves me more to drop on lenses, shoulder mounts, etc.
So now I'm in a position where I'm not completely defined as a cinematographer, not sure if the FS700 is overkill or over-priced, or if the BMCC is what I need or not for run and gun type shooting. I liked the idea of the FS700 being the all-in-one type of equipment (good low-light, built in filters, and slow-mo of course), but is it really worth 5k+ more or is the technology going to rapidly change due to BMCC? Maybe the better route is to make due with the BMCC and move up when its big-brother (or something close) comes out in a year, then make BMCC my b-camera. Or maybe the FS700 is really all I need because of my run-and-gun style and last me years down the road.
Interesting time to get into the film game, but also frustrating in the same sense due to the quick technology changes
Anyways, long story short, I have $10,000 on hand, was planning on going AF100 route, but decided to wait till NAB. Then the FS700 was announced and I started leaning that direction even though it would most likely suck up my entire budget. Now that BMCC has came along and I have the choice of spending less money on a nice piece of equipment which leaves me more to drop on lenses, shoulder mounts, etc.
So now I'm in a position where I'm not completely defined as a cinematographer, not sure if the FS700 is overkill or over-priced, or if the BMCC is what I need or not for run and gun type shooting. I liked the idea of the FS700 being the all-in-one type of equipment (good low-light, built in filters, and slow-mo of course), but is it really worth 5k+ more or is the technology going to rapidly change due to BMCC? Maybe the better route is to make due with the BMCC and move up when its big-brother (or something close) comes out in a year, then make BMCC my b-camera. Or maybe the FS700 is really all I need because of my run-and-gun style and last me years down the road.
Interesting time to get into the film game, but also frustrating in the same sense due to the quick technology changes
Numerous, eh? Why don't you list them?
Don't feed the trolls, man.
Brian@202020
Veteran
The Nikon D800 gets 13+ stops in video when recorded externally and it's under $3000.
KyleProhaska
Veteran
That's news to me...lol. no way
Me too, I didn't see a single example that looked like thirteen stops at all.
Melvin Harris
Black Flag Member
Well......this has thrown a wrench in everything I was planning. I'm fairly new to the cinematography game and have been making it by with my Canon 60D and doing some Youtube shots with friends and some local actors. I've gotten some inquiries about shooting a couple weddings and a couple of music videos so I decided to upgrade my equipment in the hope that maybe I could one day make a living off of this
Anyways, long story short, I have $10,000 on hand, was planning on going AF100 route, but decided to wait till NAB. Then the FS700 was announced and I started leaning that direction even though it would most likely suck up my entire budget. Now that BMCC has came along and I have the choice of spending less money on a nice piece of equipment which leaves me more to drop on lenses, shoulder mounts, etc.
So now I'm in a position where I'm not completely defined as a cinematographer, not sure if the FS700 is overkill or over-priced, or if the BMCC is what I need or not for run and gun type shooting. I liked the idea of the FS700 being the all-in-one type of equipment (good low-light, built in filters, and slow-mo of course), but is it really worth 5k+ more or is the technology going to rapidly change due to BMCC? Maybe the better route is to make due with the BMCC and move up when its big-brother (or something close) comes out in a year, then make BMCC my b-camera. Or maybe the FS700 is really all I need because of my run-and-gun style and last me years down the road.
Interesting time to get into the film game, but also frustrating in the same sense due to the quick technology changes
Was in this same situation and decided the best of every world. I put down on my preorder already and am starting to accumulate and adjust my stuff to this new system. I still plan on going s35, but this gives me something to work with until, plus I am still shooting AF100 so I'm more than good. You can't go wrong with any of these cameras, honestly. I remember shooting on DVX's, HVX's, HV20's, XL2's, PD150's, Z1U's, and a host of other cameras that didn't offer nearly as much for the price.
I don't know what these other people are talking about...
Bottom line, the 700 is a wonderful camera for what it does, and so is the BMCC, and yes, the tech changes faster than a giggolo's uderwear, but in the end you've got to future proof yourself rather than your equipment. I used a G4 Mac until 6 months ago when the HDD finally gave up the ghost. I loved it; it worked wonderfully. Do that with your camera. I only own 2 cameras. I still use those 2 cameras nearly every day although one is a number of years old. When I get this BMCC, I'll still use my two cameras. Period.
Emanuel
Cross-Examiner
No idea if it 13-stops we're talking about. But this user has some interesting tests done with a D4 + external recording:
https://vimeo.com/raitank
Start a new thread for other cameras. Deleting the Apertus posts.
With the release of this camera, now I can FINALLY make that indie film I always dreamed of! Finally a cinema camera for the everyday man!
Oh wait... I think I said that when the 5DmkII came out... and there is the lack of super35 sensor on the BMC... if they would just give me that, THEN I could finally make the indie feature I've always dreamed about!
Until I think of something else that will get in the way...
Oh wait... I think I said that when the 5DmkII came out... and there is the lack of super35 sensor on the BMC... if they would just give me that, THEN I could finally make the indie feature I've always dreamed about!
Until I think of something else that will get in the way...
Yes sir!
refocusedmedia
Veteran
Oh man, I'd totally be interested in that phenomenal camera with revolutionary features at an incredible price if it only met a few of my unrealistic expectations!
philiplipetz
Veteran
Our team has ordered two so do not consider these questions to be negative.
1. The lens tube extends two inches from the camera body and simple physics says that mounting a heavy lens will put extreme pressure on the mounting point. I have seen many pictures of the Cinema Camera with heavy lenses supported by rails. Will this be necessary with heavy lenses?
2. Some comments made by Blackmagic reps on the videos seem to indicate that exposure and white balance setting are not optimized for on camera control since RAW CinemaDNG lets those decisions be made while editing. Certainly, it appears that changes will require switching from preview mode to screen control panel mode. While this is perfectly acceptable for controlled narrative films it can create problems for all other forms of shooting. Is this correct?
3. Other comments indicate that the screen may not be accurate enough to use for setting exposure-WB. Waveform seems to be available only via an external computer, and I assume BM devices. Setting these parameters accurately is important when shooting a compressed format such as ProRes, but will the controls allow for this during field work?
4. In a video interview there seemed to be some hesitation and ambiguity about the ability of the electronic EOS mount to control focus and power IS, the rep only said that it would control aperture and did not respond to the rest of the question.
5. Is the Thunderbolt port only for data transfer or will it also provide screen views so that a TB to HDMI converter could be used to drive a EVF or monitor? Will the TB port provide power so that it could drive data transfers to external TB RAIDs?
6. While the ability of the camera to capture low light detail is amazing (gotta love 13+ stops of DR) the optimization of the signal processing to use that detail for higher ISOs is not present in the prototype camera. Will you be able to go to very high levels of ISO with proper post processing of the RAW DNG files? Will the cameras DSP be tuned to provide high ISO for ProRes and AVID compression or will that be available only for RAW DNG files with out of camera processing?
7. Another question relating to the limits of the internal DSP is codec breakup and microblocking during pans, or in moving fields of objects such as leaves.
8. What technology is the internal battery? HOw many cycles is it rated at? What will be the cost of battery replacement, and will it require service in authorized repair shops?
9. How difficult will it be to round trip these huge files between Resolve and our NLE, has there been some alterations to accommodate BM Cinema Camera work flow?
10. Will heat dissipation be an issue when shooting RAW for an hour?
1. The lens tube extends two inches from the camera body and simple physics says that mounting a heavy lens will put extreme pressure on the mounting point. I have seen many pictures of the Cinema Camera with heavy lenses supported by rails. Will this be necessary with heavy lenses?
2. Some comments made by Blackmagic reps on the videos seem to indicate that exposure and white balance setting are not optimized for on camera control since RAW CinemaDNG lets those decisions be made while editing. Certainly, it appears that changes will require switching from preview mode to screen control panel mode. While this is perfectly acceptable for controlled narrative films it can create problems for all other forms of shooting. Is this correct?
3. Other comments indicate that the screen may not be accurate enough to use for setting exposure-WB. Waveform seems to be available only via an external computer, and I assume BM devices. Setting these parameters accurately is important when shooting a compressed format such as ProRes, but will the controls allow for this during field work?
4. In a video interview there seemed to be some hesitation and ambiguity about the ability of the electronic EOS mount to control focus and power IS, the rep only said that it would control aperture and did not respond to the rest of the question.
5. Is the Thunderbolt port only for data transfer or will it also provide screen views so that a TB to HDMI converter could be used to drive a EVF or monitor? Will the TB port provide power so that it could drive data transfers to external TB RAIDs?
6. While the ability of the camera to capture low light detail is amazing (gotta love 13+ stops of DR) the optimization of the signal processing to use that detail for higher ISOs is not present in the prototype camera. Will you be able to go to very high levels of ISO with proper post processing of the RAW DNG files? Will the cameras DSP be tuned to provide high ISO for ProRes and AVID compression or will that be available only for RAW DNG files with out of camera processing?
7. Another question relating to the limits of the internal DSP is codec breakup and microblocking during pans, or in moving fields of objects such as leaves.
8. What technology is the internal battery? HOw many cycles is it rated at? What will be the cost of battery replacement, and will it require service in authorized repair shops?
9. How difficult will it be to round trip these huge files between Resolve and our NLE, has there been some alterations to accommodate BM Cinema Camera work flow?
10. Will heat dissipation be an issue when shooting RAW for an hour?