Other: BlackMagic Cinema camera!!!! 2.5k for 3k...

daveswan said:
Well ok, I've been on the BM site and looking at the specs required to run DaVinci. OK, I've been playing around with lite, and know I'll need 2 graphics cards, but what, realisticly is the minimum someone on a tight budget (The sort to be enthused about this cam) would have to put together?

Current spec i7 2600 o/c to 4.4 GHz, 8gig ram, 128 GB SSD boot 2x 1TB non-raid storage, Quadro 600 graphics. Currently running MC6 (Got to via multiple upgrades) Will budget for GTX 580 and a raid DAS box. Anything more for 2.5K raw? What *could* I gat away with?
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I don't know if resolve will be an option for those looking for a budget option, as it would be another $1k in hardware (Is far as I know)? And its setup for a calibrated tv monitor, not computer monitor?? From what I've read, CS6 might be the solution. It sounds like its supper fast. There might be a chance that we don't need resolve and speedgrade looks like a great grading app.

The competition is heating up with finishing apps, and I think that is why we are seeing all these drastic measures by companies.
 
philiplipetz said:
Our team has ordered two so do not consider these questions to be negative.

1. The lens tube extends two inches from the camera body and simple physics says that mounting a heavy lens will put extreme pressure on the mounting point. I have seen many pictures of the Cinema Camera with heavy lens supported by rails. Will this be necessary with heavy lenses?
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Heavy lenses should always have support no matter which camera you use them on. The ones that threaten damage usually come with a support bracket anyway. One that you can mount directly to a tripod plate or rails.

2. Some comments made by Blackmagic reps on the videos seem to indicate that exposure and white balance setting are not optimized for on camera control since RAW CinemaDNG lets those decisions be made while editing. Certainly, it appears that changes will require switching from preview mode to screen control panel mode. While this is perfectly acceptable for controlled narrative films it can create problems for all other forms of shooting. Is this correct?
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Having shot RAW for years now (RED), switching is not necessary. As long as their viewing LUT is fine-tuned like, say, Redgamma, you won't ever have to go to the RAW preview to see what you're getting. That's what we did in the beginning, now you don't have to even look at the raw data unless you want to.

Basically, if you're lighting to the viewing LUT and you're not clipping, your raw image is that much better.

3. Other comments indicate that the screen may not provide be accurate enough to use for setting exposure-WB. Waveform seems to be available only via an external computer, and I assume BM devices. Setting these parameters accurately is important when shooting a compressed format such as ProRes, but will the controls allow for this during field work?
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Not sure about this.

4. In a video interview there seemed to be some hesitation and ambiguity about the ability of the electronic EOS mount to control focus and power IS, the rep only said that it would control aperture and did not respond to the rest of the question.
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John's mentioned that they are working on IS functoins, etc.

5. Is the Thunderbolt port only for data transfer or will it also provide screen views so that a TB to HDMI converter could be used to drive a EVF or monitor? Will the TB port provide power so that it could drive data transfers to external TB RAIDs?
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Another good question to ask.

6. While the ability of the camera to capture low light detail is amazing (gotta love 13+ stops of DR) the optimization of the signal processing to use that detail for higher ISOs is not present in the prototype camera. Will you be able to go to very high levels of ISO with proper post processing of the RAW DNG files? Will the cameras DSP be tuned to provide high ISO for ProRes and AVID compression or will that be available only for RAW DNG files with out of camera processing?
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No telling right now about high ISOs, but if it's a raw workflow the only actual ISO that matters is the native. The rest are simulations until you get to post. You'll be able to adjust the ISO, so on and so forth. What's important is getting as much light to the sensor as possible.

As far as the ProRes versions, they won't have the same amount of flexibility and I imagine this is where the baked in metadata makes a difference.

Anyone want to clarify more if I'm wrong?

7. Another question relating to the limits of the internal DSP is codec breakup and microblocking during pans, or in moving fields of objects such as leaves.
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It's low compression raw, 12-bit. Everything that plagues lesser formats should be a non-issue. That includes banding.

8. What technology is the internal battery? HOw many cycles is it rated at? What will be the cost of battery replacement, and will it require service in authorized repair shops?
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They've only said Li-ion, no cycle ratings. GOod question, though. Another one to ask.

9. How difficult will it be to round trip these huge files between Resolve and our NLE, has there been some alterations to accommodate BM Cinema Camera work flow?
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From resolve you should be able to export 1 Light proxies, edit those, then bring the XML/EDL back into resolve for finishing. Very easy process, just a few steps to get used to.

You could also use a 5DtoRGB quick batch convert to proxy workflow if Thomas manages to add DNG conversion support. But, you'd be missing out on the ability to do 1 light with DNG files.

perhaps there's a way for Thomas to add a pre-determined lut to each file... hmm... I need to email him and see if he's already on this.

10. Will heat dissipation be an issue when shooting RAW for an hour?
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I was curious about how the camera let off steam as well. But, I don't think it'll be an issue with continuous shooting. SSDs barely get warm, if anything the hottest component seems likeit would be the LCD.
 
If you are grading anything for HDTV playback you need to use a properly calibrated REC709 standard reference monitor. Doesn't matter what the app is. Most computer monitors are not very good for grading video, even a $400 current gen major brand consumer LCD or especially plasma TV is a better reference display with proper calibration. Most current gen HDTV's from Panasonic, Sony, LG, Sharp, etc. are true 10 bit deep color displays, somethng that isn't found in a computer monitor under $1k. You also need a 10 bit video card in your PC too.
 
huski said:
also if someone interested, here's a tiff file for the graded still.
http://carousel.hu/stuff/bmcc_test.tif
(The source file is still just a jpg, but I don't wanted to re-compress it)
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Thank you for that. There is still a lot of headroom in that tiff when I pulled it into Capture One 6.3. And because you are dealing with RAW captures from the feed to the SSD this is going to be a real Digital STILLS and Motion Camera. Just pull out a tiff file from the feed and have at it in photoshop or lightroom. Would be a great b camera for fashion or glamour shoots with a d800.
 
Kholi said:
Wouldn't they have to go further into the tube to actually work? That means hacking part of the tube off then mounting a 4/3 mount. I suspect this is what's going to happen to a lot of cameras once someone figures out how to do it properly. Barring that the only electronics in the tube are the wires for the EF mount, it'll get a nose job and a 4/3 or PL put in its place, and then you adapt up from that. Then you could just have a tucked pin connector to keep the EF option alive.
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I suspect Hot Rod Cameras is already "on it" at NAB, calipers in hand. If indeed it's physically possible, I'd be shocked if HRC doesn't announce alternate lens mount options (modified versions of the BmDCC) within 3 months of its shipping. Of course, HRC's price for these goodies will be, to paraphrase Monty Python, "cruel but fair". :-)

Inevitably followed, of course, by BmD themselves announcing a new model of the camera with swappable lens mounts before July 2013, and probably at a lower price, too. Along with a 4K-ish version for around $3K. Hopefully w/o the software bundle for folks who already got it with the original cam model.

BmD is very aggressive about their product cycles & pricing. I doubt that will change now that they're in the camera business.

None of the above are reasons to not buy the first version of the cam if it meets your immediate current needs. The BmD cinema cam is an absolute steal (as in GH2 steal) as-is if its initial feature set is what one needs today.

Cheers.
 
Jon7athan said:
Thank you for that. There is still a lot of headroom in that tiff when I pulled it into Capture One 6.3. And because you are dealing with RAW captures from the feed to the SSD this is going to be a real Digital STILLS and Motion Camera. Just pull out a tiff file from the feed and have at it in photoshop or lightroom. Would be a great b camera for fashion or glamour shoots with a d800.
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you are absolutely true on that. I love working with image sequences. Problem with 10 frames? no need to re-render, re-compress, re-export the whole movie, just those frames.
Anyway, I put up another comparison. Log image - contrast adjusted log image - fully graded image:
fMTQx.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fMTQx.jpg
 
huski said:
Emanuel said:
Sharp, impressive indeed. From where did you get it?
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John has put up same framegrabs. Note: these are only jpegs, not uncompressed frames. Still, it looks awesome!!!
http://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/
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Thanks for the John's link :-)

Jon7athan said:
Thank you for that. There is still a lot of headroom in that tiff when I pulled it into Capture One 6.3. And because you are dealing with RAW captures from the feed to the SSD this is going to be a real Digital STILLS and Motion Camera. Just pull out a tiff file from the feed and have at it in photoshop or lightroom. Would be a great b camera for fashion or glamour shoots with a d800.
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I bet the fact to have seen popping up 6-years lurkers, coming to the 1st post over these boards (be welcome! : ) means something between the lines.

I guess this camera is already now, at least as much important as F900, DVX, RED ONE and 5DII's most important firmware update in the history of digital moviemaking's announcements. If not, even tops ;)

Before the release. Remarkable.
 
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I'd like BMD to offer a M4/3 upgrade (swappable faceplate, maybe?) so we can use our M4/3 glass without having to buy a whole new camera. If they couldn't get the connection specs for M4/3, I'd be happy with manual. Most M4/3 shooters are running Nikon and Voigtlander manual glass anyway.
 
Kholi, thank you.

What I meant by my question about the lens support was if the two inch extension meant that it had LESS ability to support lenses than a normal mounting, so that you had to use lens support with smaller lenses than would be required by a camera with the lens mount flush to the body.
 
Emanuel said:
Thanks.

I bet the fact to have seen popping up 6-years lurkers, coming to the 1st post over these boards (be welcome! : ) means something between the lines.

I guess this camera is already now, at least as much important as F900, DVX, RED ONE and 5DII's most important firmware update in the history of digital moviemaking's announcements. If not, even tops ;-)

Before the release. Remarkable.
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Thank you for the welcome.:) Just check the dates. 2006 red announces red one. 3k for 3k. Never shipped. Finally have a HD raw camera shipping for 3k. Can finally post.:)
 
Isaac_Brody said:
The thing I am most excited about is dynamic range. For this price we've finally crossed that dynamic range limitation that separates a filmic look from the pack of baked in dslrs and camcorders. Higher dynamic range plus raw workflow if you want it are huge options at this price point.

I feel like the baseline has just shifted with this camera. Before we were looking at clean alias free 1080P as the baseline, but with 13 stops of dynamic range and RAW plus a built in established professional editing workflow I can honestly say that for me this could be the DSLR killer. Unless the DSLR's can keep up in the dynamic range department it becomes very hard for me to justify building a shoot around one when this camera is so much better suited with a pro workflow. DSLR's still have their uses, but between a more professional camera and having to jump through workarounds this camera is like a breath of sanity.

Bravo BMD, nicely done. I hope they sell a million of these and then release another one next year at NAB based on all the feedback that will come in the next year. Very excited to see footage and shoot with this thing this summer.
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Agreed 100%. THis sets a new benchmark for low-budget narrative filmmaking. I see little reason for someone to shoot a film with a $3000 DSLR now that this camera exists.
 
philiplipetz said:
Kholi, thank you.

What I meant by my question about the lens support was if the two inch extension meant that it had LESS ability to support lenses than a normal mounting, so that you had to use lens support with smaller lenses than would be required by a camera with the lens mount flush to the body.
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Hmm. Valid concern. That'll me up to BMD engineers to give us so tech specs but I'm optimistic. Im compiling a list of questions for these guys post NaB to get answers for the community.
 
PopcornFlix said:
I'd like BMD to offer a M4/3 upgrade (swappable faceplate, maybe?) so we can use our M4/3 glass without having to buy a whole new camera. If they couldn't get the connection specs for M4/3, I'd be happy with manual. Most M4/3 shooters are running Nikon and Voigtlander manual glass anyway.
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Yep. A non-electronic Micro 4/3 mount would suffice. We'd be able to use Canon FD, Canon EF, Voigtlander, Nikon, and even PL if there was a Micro 4/3 mount on this camera.
 
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