Black Magic PocketHD and 4K production camera

[Sfernald]

I remember recently watching a discussion by a sony engineer on the F55, which has a global shutter. He said that people sometimes say they see the jello, but it is because LCD technology (specifically he ripped on his competitors) creates its own jello. It all depends on the quality and technology of the LCD of the viewing source.

The funny thing is that means with global shutter or not, when people watch the final output, the effect will still be there.

In any case, I would not judge based on the cheap LCD on the camera. You know they are cutting costs somewhere. Wait until people get their mitts on one before you worry about it.

 

[pulpfiction007]

On John Brawley's blog, (in the comments section following his NAB Black Magic Post) he says the rolling shutter on the pocket cam is not worse than the original BMCC...but that the size/form factor makes it hard to keep stable hand held...thus it's more noticeable. I can live with that. Also he says the low light of the pocket cam is identical to the original BMCC. Since he seems to be the only one who has had extensive time with the camera, these are great things to hear.

 

[Wesley Byram]

Maybe some cheap LCDs are displaying their images one line at a time, like an old crt, instead of refreshing the whole display at once. You might see one frame of the video being drawn top-to-bottom over the previous frame if the refesh is slow enough. I imagine that this rolling-refresh would look very similar to rolling-shutter. That might explain what's going on in the D5200, and maybe in the BMC-Pocket. That's just a guess' of course.

 

[Wesley Byram]

On John Brawley's blog, (in the comments section following his NAB Black Magic Post) he says the rolling shutter on the pocket cam is not worse than the original BMCC...but that the size/form factor makes it hard to keep stable hand held...thus it's more noticeable. I can live with that. Also he says the low light of the pocket cam is identical to the original BMCC. Since he seems to be the only one who has had extensive time with the camera, these are great things to hear.

That's not so bad, then. Of coarse, the RS on the original BMC is not the best, but for a $1000, pocket cam I can live with that, especially for what else it offers.

 

[emweb]

I just now watched this. The Pocket looks very drool-worthy, but...holy cow look at the jello. He's barely moving the camera and the rolling-shutter is very prominent. The finalized, shipping version isn't going to record footage that looks like that...right? I mean, it can be the smallest, cheapest, highest DR, raw recording camera in the world (which it is), but if a movie camera requires that nothing in the frame actually moves very much, then what use is it?

wow is that jello effect normal

 

[Wesley Byram]

wow is that jello effect normal

Yeah, re-reading my own post, it comes across a bit nastier and more hyperbolic than it sounded in my head.

Edit: To add, I'm used to more conventional video cameras, which generally don't show nearly as much RS as DSLR's do.

 

[bumkicho]

I have shot with 5D II before and now I mainly shoot with 5D III. I read before BMCP's jello isn't worse than 5D.

 

[Thomas Smet]

Find me a DSLR that doesn't look like crap handheld. So what if it is a pocket cam. You cannot expect miracles from trying to hand hold a camera. The lighter and smaller the camera the harder it will be to keep it sturdy. Again if you really need to go hand held you need a lens with I,age stabilization. Even a traditional video camera is going to look horrible if you turn off image stabilization. Lumix lenses with mega OIS should help a lot. The 14-140 lens on my GH2 can be a night and day difference turning the OIS on and off. With it off it is impossible to hand hold. The BMPC is even smaller and lighter which means if you just happen to fart the camera is going to go flying all over the place. Either use a lens with OIS like most DSLRs have to or use a tripod, monopod, rig, should mount or stack of books. Remember this will basically be like shooting with an iPhone in terms of form factor and weight so do whatever you can to keep it sturdy.

 

[OldCorpse]

Do any of the BM cams with the 4/3 active mounts fully support OIS for panny lenses?

 

[Wesley Byram]

Do any of the BM cams with the 4/3 active mounts fully support OIS for panny lenses?

I believe that the BMC-Pocket will, but not the BMC v1.

 

[dustylense]

SO let me get this right.... SOme are discussing rolling shutter of the pocket cam based off a video filming with rolling shutter of the back of a camera with RS? Here is what I'd be concerned about... Three big (and small) cameras were announced this NAB. The BMC4k, pocket cam, and upgrade to Dragon sensor. I haven't seen a SINGLE frame grab from any of these finalized to date much less a few seconds of footage. Yet they are already being pre-bought or deposits are being laid out??? Amazing!! Truly amazing!....

 

[pulpfiction007]

Personally, I was judging off of an early review by a guy who's had the camera in his hands for a while. There's really nothing to lose with a deposit on the Pocket Cam level....if footage/reviews come out before hand that are terrible, cancel deposit, move on.

 

[Wesley Byram]

...I haven't seen a SINGLE frame grab from any of these finalized to date much less a few seconds of footage. Yet they are already being pre-bought or deposits are being laid out??? Amazing!! Truly amazing!....

Indeed. Last year when the BMC v1.0 was unveiled, there was at least some footage to go with the announcement. It's odd that there isn't anything yet for these two new ones.

 

[John Caballero]

Again, like I said before, the great thing about these camera companies is that they don't force you, don't threaten you or worst yet, shoot you on the spot if you don't buy any of their cameras! It is all voluntary thing! You like it you buy it. You don't like it, you don't buy it.

 

[Wesley Byram]

Again, like I said before, the great thing about these camera companies is that they don't force you, don't threaten you or worst yet, shoot you on the spot if you don't buy any of their cameras! It is all voluntary thing! You like it you buy it. You don't like it, you don't buy it.

I dunno. I could totaly see Jim Jannard hanging around the Sony booth and telling the attendees "So you're look'n at cameras, huh? I'm going to make you an offer you can't refuse." :kali:

I kid. I kid.

 

[pulpfiction007]

Indeed. Last year when the BMC v1.0 was unveiled, there was at least some footage to go with the announcement. It's odd that there isn't anything yet for these two new ones.

Brawley will have something for the Pocket Cam soon. I believe he did the first footage last year as well.

 

[DDirector]

I know it was talked about here, but I cannot find it anymore, about the moire & raw.
I'm interested in this camera because its $4K, 4K res, has global shutter, and has a Super35 sensor.

-When shooting 4K, it records in raw, correct? Is it uncompressed or compressed?
- If it records compressed raw, is it bad, would it an issue? Dont know how much compression it would get.
-Will there be a moire issue on this camera? I heard it doesnt have OLPF. I heard it will cause moire, but then again, I heard it probably wont.

I just wanted to clarify this.
I'm interested in this camera, but if any of these two things could cause issues, Id rather not bother and just save my money for other stuff.
The fact that its only 24p and no-slow mo also is a bummer. But not the worst thing

 

[dustylense]

But were at a point to were we are willing to deposit on a device without indication of performance. When you buy a car do you just slap your down payment and sign the dotted line? No, you take it for a test spin. Not trying to bash BMC or RED, but let's get realistic here.
Look at the as seen on TV type product that says "money back guarantee". Most of the products are complete trash, just worthless POS's. It's that hook of "money back guarantee" that sells to the buyer the "if I don't like it I'll get my money back". Well as it turns out, well over half those purchases never get returned because people are too lazy to go through the process. That or there is a hitch like re-stocking fee. So it just gets tossed in the dump and the company makes it's buck. Sure, a bit different with a camera. But still, they are selling hope and not performance defined. I find it a strange model for consumerism. Top that off with "that will come in a future firmware update". Really??? How often do you hear that these days? I understand getting your product to market, but COME ON. With BMD and their camera product, they made TWO NEW cameras before they could supply any simple firmware updates like a better battery readout or VU meters. Instead of supporting the existing product with all sorts of shortcomings, they went on to make two new products with the EXACT SAME PROMISES? "Shipping this July".

Not a single working image to gauge off from the BMC4k and they're going to ship in July? Reminds me of doing my book report the night before it was due. Rushed.....Rush to market and figure it out later with "that will come in a future update" or "we're seriously looking into that".

 

[Wesley Byram]

-When shooting 4K, it records in raw, correct? Is it uncompressed or compressed?
- If it records compressed raw, is it bad, would it an issue? Dont know how much compression it would get.

It's mildly compressed. Probably won't be an issue.

-Will there be a moire issue on this camera? I heard it doesnt have OLPF. I heard it will cause moire, but then again, I heard it probably wont.

There's no OLPF so there will be moire. The 4k resolution means that it should be a little better in that regard than the BMC v1.0, but it will still give you some aliasing from time to time.

I just wanted to clarify this.
I'm interested in this camera, but if any of these two things could cause issues, Id rather not bother and just save my money for other stuff.
The fact that its only 24p and no-slow mo also is a bummer. But not the worst thing

It can go as high as 30p, so there's room for some very mild slo-mo, but that's it, so you'll need another cam that can go higher to get slo-mo shots. On the flip side, as you mentioned it has a global shutter, which is a big deal. The only other 4k camera with a global shutter that I'm aware of costs around 30 grand. On the other flip-side, there will be a loss of sensitivity and DR because of the global shutter. In addition, there is some indication that there might be some motion artifacts in the highlights due to the way the chip that's suspected to be used (but not confirmed, I must point out) implements HDR.

So, in other words, we'll have to wait and see.

 

[DDirector]

It's mildly compressed. Probably won't be an issue.



There's no OLPF so there will be moire. The 4k resolution means that it should be a little better in that regard than the BMC v1.0, but it will still give you some aliasing from time to time.



It can go as high as 30p, so there's room for some very mild slo-mo, but that's it, so you'll need another cam that can go higher to get slo-mo shots. On the flip side, as you mentioned it has a global shutter, which is a big deal. The only other 4k camera with a global shutter that I'm aware of costs around 30 grand. On the other flip-side, there will be a loss of sensitivity and DR because of the global shutter. In addition, there is some indication that there might be some motion artifacts in the highlights due to the way the chip that's suspected to be used (but not confirmed, I must point out) implements HDR.

So, in other words, we'll have to wait and see.

Okay, thanks a lot!