Black Magic PocketHD and 4K production camera

But seriously, there's a reason why ALL, and I mean ALL professional cameras have removable batteries. So you can change them when they die and continue shooting! It's been this way for decades, because it WORKS!![/QUOTE]

I have no idea WHAT you are referring to. Any "professional" camera spec'd similar to this has ALWAYS had a requirement for expensive Anton Bauer batteries. There are other solutions for Blackmagic that those same owners would have given limbs to purchase, while still having an internal battery to go super low profile for certain shots.

IT's a luxury that smaller DV cameras were capable of being powered by equally small batteries, NOONE took those as Professional tools. That's why they're classified as PROSUMER, not Professional, by the people that manufacture them.
 
vanvideo said:
Do you consider the F3 professional? How about the FS700? The C300? The C100?
And what's wrong with AB batteries? They're not cheap, but they work. It's an investment in the camera, just as much as buying SSD for the BMC. The point is, the cameras are designed to continue shooting when the battery dies, because you simply replace the battery. You don't need to stop the shoot and plug in the camera, which you would need to do with a BMC AS IS.

If the camera has a D tap, the yes, I can power an external monitor. The wireless, etc. are separate from the camera. If I'm out in the field shooting B-roll, I don't need these things to run the camera. Besides, let the audio guy worry about his audio set-up.
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To me you are comparing apples to oranges. Those cameras you speak of such as the c100 are run and gun type cameras that are ancestors to the handycam. The BMCC follows a different ancestor, the cinema cameras such as the Arri and Bolex film cameras.

Make sure the reason you want the camera matches the purpose of the camera or prepare for a lot of extra work and effort on your part.
 
All right, everybody here is happy with an internal battery, cool.

But keep in mind: Sony, Panasonic, Arri, Aaton, JVC, Canon, RED, Ikegami, Ikonoskop, even Digital D16 - ALL have removable batteries, in ALL of their professional cameras. And if you don't know what I mean by "professional," it's the cameras that require more than what a consumer model can offer. Let's not play with semantics - you guys are pros, you know what you use.

That also applies to DSLRs: Canon, Panasonic, Sony, Pentax, Leica, Olympus, etc. - ALL have removable batteries, None of them rely on internal batteries. Not one.

It also goes to all audio wireless systems, and the mixers they plug into. All have removable batteries.

And all the rigs you guys pictured have one thing in common - a removable battery. None of them ran on an internal power source.

And that is my point. I cannot think of any other professional (not consumer) equipment that runs on internal power only.

Imagine how much better the BMC cameras would be if they all had a simple, removable battery system, much like a C300. Then I would take it out into the field, without any rigs, just clean as it comes from the factory.
Just as I plan to do with my new BM Pocket Cam.
 
vanvideo said:
All right, everybody here is happy with an internal battery, cool.

But keep in mind: Sony, Panasonic, Arri, Aaton, JVC, Canon, RED, Ikegami, Ikonoskop, even Digital D16 - ALL have removable batteries, in ALL of their professional cameras. .
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Sony, Arri, Red all require an external power source. There's no "removable" battery, there isn't a battery to begin with. You purchase 300-500 dollar batteries for every single camera that these guys manufacture what they consider their top tier cameras. All three.

ANyone experienced with RED pre EPIC days knows that nearly EVERY kit came with a rental Bebob Plate, the plate is designed to hold a charge so that when you switch batteries, the camera doesn't go down. Blackmagic has what most people paid for as a "feature" built-in, the internal battery is a bonus for anyone that's actually used to the workflow that the camera's being pitched for.

I cannot understand what the discrepancy is.
 
Kholi said:
Sony, Arri, Red all require an external power source. There's no "removable" battery, there isn't a battery to begin with. You purchase 300-500 dollar batteries for every single camera that these guys manufacture what they consider their top tier cameras. All three.
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Well, RED has one but it powers the camera for a whopping 1/2 hour and the battery costs ???????....
 
dustylense said:
Well, RED has one but it powers the camera for a whopping 1/2 hour and the battery costs ???????....
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It actually doesn't come with the camera, it's another module that you have to purchase to obtain that ability, which makes the camera larger.

Most people power off of RED Bricks or similar, the handle's an add-on.
 
Kholi said:
Sony, Arri, Red all require an external power source. There's no "removable" battery, there isn't a battery to begin with. You purchase 300-500 dollar batteries for every single camera that these guys manufacture what they consider their top tier cameras. All three.

ANyone experienced with RED pre EPIC days knows that nearly EVERY kit came with a rental Bebob Plate, the plate is designed to hold a charge so that when you switch batteries, the camera doesn't go down. Blackmagic has what most people paid for as a "feature" built-in, the internal battery is a bonus for anyone that's actually used to the workflow that the camera's being pitched for.

I cannot understand what the discrepancy is.
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The cameras you mentioned are designed to run on an external battery. ALL of them are, that is my point. There is a reason why, so you can change the batteries when they die.
Out of the box, there is no place to attach an external battery to the BMC. You have to buy a rig to make it function for more than a few hours. Would you go on a professional shoot with an internal power source only? What is that, 2-3 hours maximum? That is what I mean by a flawed design, and why no other camera manufacturer uses an internal power source.
There is a reason that feature is found only in consumer models.
 
Kholi said:
It actually doesn't come with the camera, it's another module that you have to purchase to obtain that ability, which makes the camera larger.

Most people power off of RED Bricks or similar, the handle's an add-on.
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True, but part of my point is that a battery of that capacity is just not enough to power the camera for any decent amount of time.

@vanvideo. Judging by your argument, I think you would be VERY happy with a C100. It sounds like you are concerned with shooting while on a hike and you want an all in one type solution.
 
vanvideo said:
The cameras you mentioned are designed to run on an external battery. ALL of them are, that is my point. There is a reason why, so you can change the batteries when they die.
Out of the box, there is no place to attach an external battery to the BMC. You have to buy a rig to make it function for more than a few hours. Would you go on a professional shoot with an internal power source only? What is that, 2-3 hours maximum? That is what I mean by a flawed design, and why no other camera manufacturer uses an internal power source.
There is a reason that feature is found only in consumer models.
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So your entire issue with the internal battery is that it exists, and if it didn't exist at all, no interchangeable anything, and the ONLY way to power it for any period of time would be to purchase an external non-proprietary source, then it wouldn't bother you? Even though the camera is CLEARLY designed to be primarily powered by an external source, hence the internal removable battery.

Just want to make sure that I'm reading this right.
 
What happens when the internal battery reaches the end of its cycle and needs to be replaced? Off to service or can it be replaced by the user?
 
bluesgeek said:
What happens when the internal battery reaches the end of its cycle and needs to be replaced? Off to service or can it be replaced by the user?
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Service, under warranty free of charge I believe. Out of warranty 100.00 replacement.
 
Kholi said:
So your entire issue with the internal battery is that it exists, and if it didn't exist at all, no interchangeable anything, and the ONLY way to power it for any period of time would be to purchase an external non-proprietary source, then it wouldn't bother you? Even though the camera is CLEARLY designed to be primarily powered by an external source, hence the internal removable battery.

Just want to make sure that I'm reading this right.
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My issue is, it doesn't have a place, slot, whatever, that takes a battery. A battery that I can quickly swap out when it dies, then replace with another. Like the Pocket Cam.

I definitely prefer a camera with an external battery source, yes. As far as non-proprietary, BM can make their own brand, possibly, much like Sony, Panasonic, etc. Or use a Nikon battery, as an example.
 
vanvideo said:
My issue is, it doesn't have a place, slot, whatever, that takes a battery. A battery that I can quickly swap out when it dies, then replace with another. Like the Pocket Cam.

I definitely prefer a camera with an external battery source, yes. As far as non-proprietary, BM can make their own brand, possibly, much like Sony, Panasonic, etc. Or use a Nikon battery, as an example.
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I would like a phone that has a slot, place, whatever that took a backup battery but I still have the iPhone. Going in circles now.... How many people bitched about the Iphone having internal non removable battery but yet the darn thing sells like crazy?

Again, I took a PB70 and mounted it on top of the BMC's 1/4 20. No rig, no rails, no arms, no glue, no tape. It worked just fine and powered the camera 6.5 hours if you take into consideration the internal battery. I handheld, put on slider, jib, and sticks. Pretty simple.
 
vanvideo said:
My issue is, it doesn't have a place, slot, whatever, that takes a battery. A battery that I can quickly swap out when it dies, then replace with another. Like the Pocket Cam.
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None of the cameras that you listed actually have a place, or a slot, or anything. You have to purchase it separately. All of them. You choose which battery you want to put on it.

Unless the F55 came with an A/B from manufacturer, I don't think that has changed. and RED CERTAINLY does not include one, neither does ARri.

I definitely prefer a camera with an external battery source, yes. As far as non-proprietary, BM can make their own brand, possibly, much like Sony, Panasonic, etc. Or use a Nikon battery, as an example.
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That's not the question though. Does it bother you that it has an external battery, and if the external battery did not exist and you had no choice but to power it externally at all times through the existing power jack on the camera, then it would not bother you?

I'm asking because I see this argument come up SO much and I don't get it. Just because the battery exists it should be interchangeable, but if it didn't exist at all and there was only one way to power it (via the DC jack) that would be okay?
 
What is this silliness whining about buying an external battery? The camera is being compared with Reds and Alexas. Real cameras use external batteries. Get over it. I know Kholi shot at least one feature on the Reds and he knows what he's talking about. The BMC is incredibly flexible and able to be rigged all different ways. If you can't afford a batter to go with it, stick with your gh1. Whatever.
 
Seems like DSLRs and consumer cams have gotten people used to user-swappable batteries. I understand the preference for that as a feature, but I don't get the people who rule out the BMCC for that reason. Similar to people who ruled it out because of its "small" sensor, lol.

Most everyone I've seen that has used the BMCC has said the 90ish min internal battery life is much appreciated as a stop-gap between power sources. If you're trying to run-n-gun with this camera, you should be planning ahead anyway and that means power.

If you had a DSLR you'd be bringing along a bunch of extra batteries and a charging kit. With the BMCC, you're bringing along a couple vmounts.

With the DSLR you have to turn the camera off entirely, swap batteries, check your settings and go. With the BMCC you simply have to change the vmount (which can be a simple task if you plan and rig accordingly!). Heck, if you or your AC forgets the extra vmounts in the hotel room you have time for them to go get it and you can still keep shooting. Not so with DSLR batteries.

And of course, if you're in the studio you can stay powered the whole time and never have to interrupt production for a battery swap.
 
All I can say is: Cameras MUST be getting pretty damn good now when we argue about the "problems" of an interchangeable lens, S35 camera, ready to edit high quality files/compressed raw camera for 4 thousand bucks. Remember like 4 years ago....that was the "holy grail", and this one does 4K too. lol

Same with the pocket cam for extreme low budgets, it's ludicrous what that thing has for $995.
 
Kholi said:
None of the cameras that you listed actually have a place, or a slot, or anything. You have to purchase it separately. All of them. You choose which battery you want to put on it.

Unless the F55 came with an A/B from manufacturer, I don't think that has changed. and RED CERTAINLY does not include one, neither does ARri.



That's not the question though. Does it bother you that it has an external battery, and if the external battery did not exist and you had no choice but to power it externally at all times through the existing power jack on the camera, then it would not bother you?

I'm asking because I see this argument come up SO much and I don't get it. Just because the battery exists it should be interchangeable, but if it didn't exist at all and there was only one way to power it (via the DC jack) that would be okay?
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I didn't list any particular cameras, but as an example, the FS100, FS700, F3, C300, C100, XF305, XF300, XF100, XF105, EX1R, EX3, PMW200, PMW160 and AF100 all have battery slots. There are many more I can list.

The shoulder mount Sony, JVC and Panasonic cameras I owned and/or used all had a plate on the back that was either an AB or V-mount. They do not require an extra rig, they come this way.
I have no idea how to power a RED, but there seems to be a grip that has a slot for a battery. They seem to have an accessory slot that can take a RED battery, but I don't know for sure.

I don't get your questions, but I will sum it up as I have been saying: I expect my cameras to have a slot, plate, whatever, that I can attach a battery to. A plate, slot, etc. from the factory, built into the camera. Every camera I have ever used has this. It's a very handy feature.
 
Jeez, let it die. all valid points but in the end, it has an internal battery and they didn't see a need to make it swapable so you deal with it or move on.
 
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