GH2 Audio Solutions for Documentary/News Work Help!

lpowell said:
Here's a zoom test I did of the Olympus 14-54mm MKII at f3.5. It exhibits both audible clicks and visual flashes while zooming:


For my own work, I replaced the Olympus 14-54mm with a Panasonic 14-50mm f2.8-3.5 (pictured in the previous photo of my GH1/H4N rig). The 14-50mm has the most effective OIS I've seen on any Lumix lens. While it's not a perfect run-and-gun lens, it's currently the fastest OIS zoom that can do the job. The drawback of all Panasonic and Olympus Micro/Four Thirds lenses is the undesirable interaction between the zoom and focus mechanisms. These lenses will shift focus when zooming, and will breathe when focusing. The Pansonic 14-50mm f2.8-3.5 holds focus across a fairly wide zoom range, but its framing changes noticeably as it's focused. When using it, I pre-focus my shots and don't attempt to pull focus during a shot.
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First let me thank you for taking the time to create all these tests for these lenses. It has been a real benefit to myself and other forum members I'm sure.

The Panny 14-50 was one of my first go-to lenses for the GH2 but as you mentioned it has that serious focus breathing issue (i say serious compared to other photo zooms)
That for me was a deal breaker. OIS is great but I can find ways to steady my shot otherwise...there's no workaround to focus breathing when you need to pull focus.
I think it just boils down to style and ease of use for each person.
I've recently taken the mindset of the camera being an omnipotent fly-on-the-wall so the least amount of unreal camera movement is possible.
I've even stopped pannign/tilting my shots because it just reveals that there was a camera man there lol (I'd rather move and reframe the shot if its a fiction piece)
But thats just me :)

Tell me Sir L. Powell, have you used the Olympus 12-60? I would love to hear you're thoughts on it performance.

*Hmmm just watched you're video test of the Pansonic 14-50mm 2.8-3.5 and I've started to reconsider this lens again!
Just read some reviews on B&H and some mentioend the OIS being noisy. Is that the case lpowell?
That would indeed be a deal breaker since im looking for as quite a lens as possible and the OIS is a big deal with this Panny 14-50.
Its difficult for me as I dont have the ability to test out any of these lenses based on where I live.
4/3rds Photo zooms are a rarity in 3rd world islands...
 
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Yes, focusing is not a strong point of the Panasonic 14-50mm and I've learned to check it before each shot. I gave up on pulling focus with all the Panasonic and Olympus lenses, though I haven't tried the 12-60mm zoom (lens barrel extends too far for my taste). The only Four Thirds lens I've found suitable for pulling focus is the Sigma 30mm f1.4, which has nice tactile feel with its SWD motor and barely breathes at all. But in general, I only attempt to pull focus when using a Canon FD or Konica Hexanon prime lens mounted on a tripod.

When engaged, the OIS motor in the 14-50mm can be heard churning constantly. However, this is audible only when you put the camera right next to your ear. It's too quiet to be picked up by the internal stereo mics on the zoom H4N mounted aside the GH1 on my Gini shoulder mount (pictured on page one of this thread). I doubt you'd hear it even with a shotgun mic shock mounted on the GH1's hot shoe.

Here's an example of what the OIS in the Panasonic 14-50mm can do, completely handheld without a rig or any means of external stabilization:


 
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lpowell said:
Yes, focusing is not a strong point of the Panasonic 14-50mm and I've learned to check it before each shot. I gave up on pulling focus with all the Panasonic and Olympus lenses, though I haven't tried the 12-60mm zoom (lens barrel extends too far for my taste). The only Four Thirds lens I've found suitable for pulling focus is the Sigma 30mm f1.4, which has nice tactile feel with its SWD motor and barely breathes at all. But in general, I only attempt to pull focus when using a Canon FD or Konica Hexanon prime lens mounted on a tripod.

When engaged, the OIS motor in the 14-50mm can be heard churning constantly. However, this is audible only when you put the camera right next to your ear. It's too quiet to be picked up by the internal stereo mics on the zoom H4N mounted aside the GH1 on my Gini shoulder mount (pictured on page one of this thread). I doubt you'd hear it even with a shotgun mic shock mounted on the GH1's hot shoe.

Here's an example of what the OIS in the Panasonic 14-50mm can do, completely handheld without a rig or any means of external stabilization:


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Well the 12-60mm is a SWD lens too and If I get it I'll be happy to know it'll also work with follow focuses (if I get one that is)
It'll be a good companion to the Olympsu 50-200mm which is also SWD focusing.

Was the audio from the train clip coming from the internal mics of the GH?
More issues than I'd like to deal with. Its good that it works for you though.
We use the best tool for the job and we all have different jobs lol

Thanks for replying to all my questions.
 
I got the Pana 14-50mm recently to replace my Oly 14-54 mkII. Unlike lpowell I found the OIS noise to be a significant problem. The Oly 14-54 focusing noise was a significant problem too, however. I worked around it now by attaching a 4" israeli arm to the hot shoe and put by mic (sometimes a VMP and sometimes a senn 66) on that. I can get the shotgun above and almost in front of the lens and the noise is barely, barely picked up. The OIS on the 14-50 is really spectacular. Much more stabilization than other systems.

Back to the orignal post: I'm pretty happy with the VMP and the GH2. I often shoot with the +20db gain on the VMP--but I use a -11db attenuation cable to knock it down to 9db of gain. For many situations, this works really well because I can then lower the volume and the preamp noise from the GH2 falls off. For loud situations i can go 0 db gain or -11db is just a few seconds.
I have an H4n, but for the kind of work I do I need to keep things small and simple and the H4n is a little too much. I am thinking about getting the H1 to use with the VMP but so far, for verite style doc work I've been fairly please with the above set up.
 
Boncrek said:
Thanks for the reply.
Not many Vimeo ppl reply to questions these days and I ask alot of questions :)
I would love to see a picture of this setup.

My only problem with the Zoom H4n and Tascam DR100 is that they dont play nicely with the NTG-2.
Do you know any possible workarounds for this?
So far no one online has found any worthwhile way to solve this issue without a seperate preamp.
A seperate preamp would just add to the weight of the setup and im aiming for a small lean mean capture machine.

Because of where I live (Jamaica) returning an item or even testing an item that is sold abroad is pretty hard near impossible
unless someone already has it here on the island or if i fly to america myself and test it out.
So forums and online questions and answers such as these are a Godsend.

So far I'm seeing more plusses than minusses with the GH2/VMP combo but again I am in no way saying it is a replacement to a full boom op rig with seperate recorder.
I would still like to see a picture of you're GH2/Zoom setup if possible.
Always love Rig Pictures lol

The documentary trailer I linked to above has some great audio coming from it and in the comments of the video Andre Garcia said it came straight from the VMP into the GH2.
He used it at 0dB with the GH2 mic level set at 1.
This is just right up my alley in terms of how i plan to use the mic, for impromtu interviews on the street and B-roll etc.
This has encouraged me greatly since I can't test out the mic/camera combo myself.
In more planned circumstances I will pull out the NTG-2 on my K-Tek boompole although im not sure what I'll be recording it unto *sigh*
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Ah, ok. I have mine set to email me when people reply to me. Hmm, I'm not sure as far as the NTG-2. I get confused when it comes to the preamps and padding, etc. All I know is what it says on the description.

"It also features a -25dB L Pad attenuator on both audio channels to reduce the Prosumer Line Level output (-10dBV) to your camera's mic input sweet spot level. It's the perfect mating cable for Zoom H4N recorders when connecting to a Panasonic Lumix GH2 but also works great for other similar mic preamps and DSLR cameras that require 25db of attenuation."
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I took a couple of pictures for you. And I had one that I had taken a while back. They're just bad cell phone pics. The two on the table-- I didn't plug in headphones, but you can see where they go.

02.jpg04.jpg03.jpg
 
I posted a question a few days ago about the Beachtek DXA-SLR XLR adaptor. Anyone using it plugged in directly to the GH2??
 
Definitely I would not rely on on-camera audio recording. Dual system recording is so easy. FCPX can sync audio easily.

For documentary work, definitely a shotgun mic is preferred. If you use VMP, its own battery can power up longer than H4n's phantom power. If you must have a condenser mic without battery, H4n might do it if work is less than an hour each session. Or you can carry extra battery. H4n, DR100, or something like that.

Lens... I guess MF works fine for documentary style. If you get a shoulder rig, you don't need OIS. A wide selection on fast primes or fast zooms. Tokina 11-16 f2.8, Tamron 17-50 f2.8, etc. You might find a follow focus gear useful.

Lighting... you might find a small LED light useful.

Run-n-gun style... its ambiguous term. You want a super compact setup... but you need to carry all gears at once. Desire to own a compact setup becomes a major bottleneck. A shoulder rig can hold all gears together. If you get a small rig, it can be a run-n-gun style. I call anything less than 10 lbs as run-n-gun style. I carry two kids sometimes. One over 40 lbs and the other 30 lbs. Together over 70 lbs. 10 lbs rig is a joke.
 
stonebat said:
Run-n-gun style... its ambiguous term. You want a super compact setup... but you need to carry all gears at once. Desire to own a compact setup becomes a major bottleneck. A shoulder rig can hold all gears together. If you get a small rig, it can be a run-n-gun style. I call anything less than 10 lbs as run-n-gun style. I carry two kids sometimes. One over 40 lbs and the other 30 lbs. Together over 70 lbs. 10 lbs rig is a joke.
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So then a GH2 with 12-60 lens, VideomicPro on the shoe mount and all on a monopod would be run and gun then right?
 
Monopods seem like they're good for certain kinds of shooting, but a bit of a pain if you need flexibility. Like when you want to dip down low, and do other movements, it will be too cumbersome for some stuff. But after reading this thread, I imagine you're thinking it would be a good choice for shooting in the back of a crowded church. A monopod could potentially work well in that situation.

I tried out a Beachtek DXA-SLR with my GH2 for a blog post I did recently, but unfortunately I only had it for a day or two, and I really didn't come away with it with a true sense of how well it preformed. That's the problem with having a short-term borrowed piece of equipment.

I recently shot a good amount of video with my GH2, in different run & gun situations. I wasn't recording dialog, so I didn't end up using my Rode VMP. When I watch the footage back (it's mostly nature & animal footage), I think the built-in mics sound fairly decent. The thing that sticks out as the biggest problem in my mind is stabilization. Every time I shot I was trying to be conscious about keeping the camera steady, yet despite my best efforts there is a goof amount of shake in the footage.

I put together my kit with the dream of creating the smallest run & gun system possible, but now I think that the smallness is too much of a tradeoff. The true goal is to shoot as high quality of an image and sound as possible. These small mics and recorders certainly have their limitations (and yes, an expereienced location sound operator with a boom and a bag is always one of the best options), but I think that the unstableness of the small camera bodies is too much of a problem. No, I'm not going to sell my GH2 for an EX1, but I am going to look into getting some kind of shoulder rig or gunstock stabilizer.

Boncrek - here's something you should know... A few months ago I got my hands on a lot of gear (but again, I only had it for a day or two). I played with lots of stuff, and one of the things that I did was plug the NTG-2 into the Zoom H4n. I also had read about how the two products didn't get along, and I wanted to see it for myself. Well, I plugged the NTG-2 into the H4n, turned on phantom power on the H4n, said check check check, adjusted the gain on the H4n, got a good level, recorded a little bit of audio, and listened back. It sounded fine. It makes me wonder if there really are problems with this combo, and why when I tried it everything worked fine.
 
For run-n-gun I am going to try using a monopod into a waist belt similar to this (but not as long): http://www.dslrnewsshooter.com/2011...ots-a-dslr-documentary-in-lebanon-and-jordan/

simon-wehye-1.jpg
 
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Sam Mallery said:
Monopods seem like they're good for certain kinds of shooting, but a bit of a pain if you need flexibility. Like when you want to dip down low, and do other movements, it will be too cumbersome for some stuff. But after reading this thread, I imagine you're thinking it would be a good choice for shooting in the back of a crowded church. A monopod could potentially work well in that situation.

I tried out a Beachtek DXA-SLR with my GH2 for a blog post I did recently, but unfortunately I only had it for a day or two, and I really didn't come away with it with a true sense of how well it preformed. That's the problem with having a short-term borrowed piece of equipment.

I recently shot a good amount of video with my GH2, in different run & gun situations. I wasn't recording dialog, so I didn't end up using my Rode VMP. When I watch the footage back (it's mostly nature & animal footage), I think the built-in mics sound fairly decent. The thing that sticks out as the biggest problem in my mind is stabilization. Every time I shot I was trying to be conscious about keeping the camera steady, yet despite my best efforts there is a goof amount of shake in the footage.

I put together my kit with the dream of creating the smallest run & gun system possible, but now I think that the smallness is too much of a tradeoff. The true goal is to shoot as high quality of an image and sound as possible. These small mics and recorders certainly have their limitations (and yes, an expereienced location sound operator with a boom and a bag is always one of the best options), but I think that the unstableness of the small camera bodies is too much of a problem. No, I'm not going to sell my GH2 for an EX1, but I am going to look into getting some kind of shoulder rig or gunstock stabilizer.

Boncrek - here's something you should know... A few months ago I got my hands on a lot of gear (but again, I only had it for a day or two). I played with lots of stuff, and one of the things that I did was plug the NTG-2 into the Zoom H4n. I also had read about how the two products didn't get along, and I wanted to see it for myself. Well, I plugged the NTG-2 into the H4n, turned on phantom power on the H4n, said check check check, adjusted the gain on the H4n, got a good level, recorded a little bit of audio, and listened back. It sounded fine. It makes me wonder if there really are problems with this combo, and why when I tried it everything worked fine.
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Hmm thansk for that information Sam.
I really like you're blog by the way.

Im happy to hear that about the NTG-2/H4n combo.
When I get a chance to go to America I'll try renting/borrowing one and seeing for myself as well how they work together.
Do you have any particular gun-stock-type stabalizers you can recommend?
 
Sam Mallery said:
Monopods seem like they're good for certain kinds of shooting, but a bit of a pain if you need flexibility. Like when you want to dip down low, and do other movements, it will be too cumbersome for some stuff.
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Depends on the monopod. The Manfrotto Video Monopod ( Manfrotto Fluid Head Monopod 561BHDV-1 ) is one of my favorite pieces of gear. It pans smoothly, goes fairly low, goes fairly high, and can even be hung upside down for low to the ground shots. ( I saw a blog entry where someone used this monopod to hang their camera upside down out a bus window to shoot a low angle of the bus in motion )
 
I personally like the Zoom H2 for sound. You can't go wrong for the price. I'm currently using a Tascam DR 680 if you want to spend more (but why would you) I think it is better value than the mixpre.
The GH2 peaks no matter what level you set it at, unless it is plugged into a fish or something with low output, so you have to actually check it to see if the limiter is working, which it probably is.
The great thing about a flash recorder, as others have mentioned here on many occasions, is you get real 24 bit. You can run a cable into the cam for backup or sync.
The preamps on the DR 680 are very good. There are too many options, but the good news is, it is all basically very cheap these days. You probably will want a hypercardioid at some point, but you can do Zoom on a stick for very little money.
 
I'm a fan of m43 zooms. AF-C can do some wonder... sometimes :)

If I need a fast zoom, I'd get 2.8 constant aperture zoom such as Tokina 11-16 and Tamron 17-50. Sharp at 2.8. Silent mechanical focus. 11-16 has very little focus breath and doesn't change length when zooming. 17-50 does change the length when zooming, but only little focus breath. Lenses wider than 50mm don't need OIS when using a shoulder rig or something like that.

But in low lighting... go for primes. If money is not issue, Oly 14-35 f2.0 seems great. But mounting will be issue for m43 bodies. The lens is heavy and doesn't come with a tripod collar.
 
stonebat said:
I'm a fan of m43 zooms. AF-C can do some wonder... sometimes :)

If I need a fast zoom, I'd get 2.8 constant aperture zoom such as Tokina 11-16 and Tamron 17-50. Sharp at 2.8. Silent mechanical focus. 11-16 has very little focus breath and doesn't change length when zooming. 17-50 does change the length when zooming, but only little focus breath. Lenses wider than 50mm don't need OIS when using a shoulder rig or something like that.

But in low lighting... go for primes. If money is not issue, Oly 14-35 f2.0 seems great. But mounting will be issue for m43 bodies. The lens is heavy and doesn't come with a tripod collar.
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Isn't the 17-50 not wide wide enough? Its a 34mm equivalent...even my DVX100B is wider than that.
One advantage of the DSLR format is of course interchageable lenses and a wider possible field of view compared to video cameras.
Which would you say is worse?
A variable aperture zoom (like Oly 14-54mm MKII or 12-60mm SWD) or constant aperture zoom (like Tamron 17-50mm) thats not wide on m43?
Keep in mind I do alot of steadicam shooting so a wide field of view would be appreciated (and no need for zoomng/focusing during a shot either)
 
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DrDave said:
I personally like the Zoom H2 for sound. You can't go wrong for the price. I'm currently using a Tascam DR 680 if you want to spend more (but why would you) I think it is better value than the mixpre.
The GH2 peaks no matter what level you set it at, unless it is plugged into a fish or something with low output, so you have to actually check it to see if the limiter is working, which it probably is.
The great thing about a flash recorder, as others have mentioned here on many occasions, is you get real 24 bit. You can run a cable into the cam for backup or sync.
The preamps on the DR 680 are very good. There are too many options, but the good news is, it is all basically very cheap these days. You probably will want a hypercardioid at some point, but you can do Zoom on a stick for very little money.
Click to expand...

I prefer the Tascam DR-05 over the Zoom H1.
Exact same price, Better build quality and battery life plus the plug-in power can be turned on or off on the DR-05.
The H1 has it on all the time.
 
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