Atomos Flame Series - HDR Hi Bright 1500 NIT Monitor/Recorders
- Thread starter CraigM
- Start date
nyvz
Veteran
Seems like this is a regular high bright 8bit display but with framerate control or temporal dithering used probably both to display 10 bit and to enable an HDR mode. Basically flickering the back light to show wider contrast than the lcd panel gets at one backlogs setting and flickering the lcd panel to interpolate colors that fall between the precision of 8bit values.
The temporal color dithering isn't new but the HDR is interesting as its like HDRx in reverse
The temporal color dithering isn't new but the HDR is interesting as its like HDRx in reverse
TheTrickster
Well-known member
So they've ditched the original Shogun and even the newly released Assassin already.....
No where to be seen on their website under the Products menu. wow.
No where to be seen on their website under the Products menu. wow.
Alpha Beta Omega
Veteran
I find the 702HB to have excellent low power consumption and I can run it at lowest backlight indoors and still have a good view. Power since the Shogun hasn't be that great on the Atomos recorders as these were before. Power handling is actually a very important factor these days to me.
Review of Atomos Ninja & Shogun Flame Monitor Recorders from Cloakroom Media
Review of Atomos Ninja & Shogun Flame Monitor Recorders from Cloakroom Media
New review of Atomos Ninja & Shogun Flame Monitor Recorders from Cloakroom Media:
http://cloakroommedia.com/2016/03/19/atomos-ninja-shogun-flame/
https://vimeo.com/159771624
ETA's for Pre-Orders April 2016:
ATOMOS NINJA FLAME 7" ATOMHDR FIELD MONITOR W/ 4K/HD RECORDING $1295
ATOMOS SHOGUN FLAME 7" 10-BIT ATOMHDR FIELD MONITOR W/ 4K/HD RECORDING $1695
Review of Atomos Ninja & Shogun Flame Monitor Recorders from Cloakroom Media
New review of Atomos Ninja & Shogun Flame Monitor Recorders from Cloakroom Media:
http://cloakroommedia.com/2016/03/19/atomos-ninja-shogun-flame/
https://vimeo.com/159771624
ETA's for Pre-Orders April 2016:
ATOMOS NINJA FLAME 7" ATOMHDR FIELD MONITOR W/ 4K/HD RECORDING $1295
ATOMOS SHOGUN FLAME 7" 10-BIT ATOMHDR FIELD MONITOR W/ 4K/HD RECORDING $1695
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David W. Jones
Veteran
I was really excited when the Shogun came out, till I rented it for pre purchase testing. If the quality is of the same toy like plasticy feel I will pass on this new offering as well. Expendable's should not cost this much. And that was the impression I got from using the Shogun, a very expensive expendable.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
explains their recent price drop. Honestly to save a few hundred bucks I'm not sure why anybody would want to Shogun or Assassin over the Flames. Unless they dropped the price even more to like $600.00. I could then see people buying the older Assassin. Me personally I think I would rather save up and get the Flame. The DCI support and ability to run longer on batteries is a huge update for me.
DC Brandon
Active member
I can see both versions being quite useful. I use my FS7 on the shoulder about 80% of the time though. I wonder if this would be too big to replace the current stock screen (using the same positioning on a Zacuto arm) or if it would be too close to my face. Probably.
They're clearly aiming for the more affordable portion of the market where 4:2:2 HQ is plenty good enough. If you want Raw, you have the Convergent Design line.
TheTrickster
Well-known member
Wasn't DCI supposed to be in the original Shogun? Thats quite an expensive FW update! LOL
Yeah explains the price drops, but still I don't think the Assassin was on the market less than 6 months.
I'm wondering on the form factors of the new devices and if they are the same as the original devices
Thomas Smet
Veteran
Whats wrong with ProRes422HQ? Considering most HDMI and SDI devices only output 4:2:2 I would consider this a pretty logical move. Heck when it comes to DSLRs none of them output 10bit except for the GH4 so again ProRes422HQ is about as good as 99% of users would ever dream of getting out of their cameras. Saving a 4:2:2 signal into a 4:4:4 file does about as much good as transcoding ProRes422HQ to ProRes4444 in post.
Having a nice screen kind of is a big deal. People pay more than this for just a high quality accurate monitor. There are professionals who actually do want an accurate screen that can show them how their footage actually looks.
That's my problem with this. I JUST bought the Assassin and now it's been replaced. I've worked with tech most of my life and would think it'd be safe to buy when the thing was just announced in September...
http://nofilmschool.com/2015/08/atomos-announces-brand-new-4k-recorder-ninja-assassin
http://nofilmschool.com/2015/08/atomos-announces-brand-new-4k-recorder-ninja-assassin
Thomas Smet
Veteran
What exactly is no longer safe about your Assassin? Just because other people will no longer be able to buy it doesn't mean yours is instantly junk. Its still a great device if you already have one.
Glass half full, huh?
What I meant by "safe" is that the device won't be replaced by a superior model in a reasonable amount of time (subjective, but I'd say at least 12-18 months). This new model addresses a huge flaw with the Assassin, which is battery life. Also I typically sell older gear to get newer gear when the time comes and if I don't sell this assassin soon, it won't have much value on the used market.
Well, for starters 444 is far better for green screen, not to mention tricky situations like night work. I should know I'm a colorist.
Further, why do you assume everyone works on DSLR's? Even my F3 from 5 years ago outputs 444.
The new PIX-E5/7 from video devices even output 444XQ. If these codecs didn't matter to people why would VD have included them?
Further, if you own a Sony F5/55, a RAW recording device might be of use to you.
Atomos has been stuck on Prores 422HQ for a long time now, they have not really evolved as a recorder, more as a monitor.
Further, it is more than a bit disingenuous of them to announce RAW recording and then...guess what?
It turns out that it is only, you guessed it, Prores 422HQ from a RAW signal !
Great, so now you can take all the advantages of RAW recording and straightjacket it in a 10bit 422 codec and call it RAW recording for the sake of your marketing.
Total BS and you are defending this. Nice one.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
Who is defending anything? I just asked whats wrong with ProRes422 HQ. The reality is if you do have a camera that can output 4:4:4 you are in the minority. Most cameras are lucky if they output 4:2:2 at 10bits so the Atomos Flame is a very viable product for a very large market compared to cameras that do support 4:4:4 or RAW output.
This product is only BS to you because you have very specific unique needs that does not fit into your workflow. It is not BS to the vast majority of users who in fact use DSLRs or professional or broadcast level video cameras that are in fact limited to 10bit 4:2:2 HDMI or SDI output.
If you feel the marketing for the raw support is BS that again is your right but I think it stills adds value to the Sony f5/f55 depending on if those cameras have the software upgrades or if somebody wants ProRes over XAVC. The standard Sony f5 only records 2k internally so if a user doesn't want the software update to record 4k internally then the Flame allows 4k recording from an otherwise 2k camera.
Besides a single chip bayer camera is kind of debatable how much better 4:4:4 recording is over 4:2:2. We are not talking 2k here but 4k that has much smaller pixels and it gets very difficult due to low pass filtering, de-bayering loss and optics to see a chrome difference at that level. If you are delivering 2k like many big budget FX movies in fact are than if you start with 4k 4:4:4, 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 and down convert to 2k there is not much of a difference at all. If you absolutely must have 4k 4:4:4 then this is clearly not the product for you and you should move on. Your needs however are in the minority and do not reflect the needs of many of the camera owners on this forum.
So now you speak for the needs of the majority of the people on this forum ?
Wow. Just wow.
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starcentral
Veteran
Thomas Smet
Veteran
I was talking about cameras like the Sony f5 or A7S that have a 4k sensor but only record 2k internally. The f5 does have a paid software upgrade that allows 4k internal recording so thats an option as well but that update also doesn't include raw and only uses a 4:2:2 version of XAVC (H264) so a recorder like the Flame may still have a benefit even for those users, not to mention a really good 10bit monitor. Even just using the Flame as a monitor may be worth the price considering only a few years ago a good SmallHD 8bit 1280x720p monitor was the same price and that didn't record anything.