Apple dumps Intel and shows Final Cut Pro on new Mac with Apple CPU !

joe1946 said:
It looks like I will have to wait an extra month for my M1 Mac Mini with 16GB and 1TB option compared to base versions.
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Yeah, I cancelled my preorder for now.

Only God can stop me from having an M1 in my future, but for now I had too much time to think about it and settle down a bit because I personally have no need for a new computer right now.

Like with most electronics, I get an unfathomable rush and desire to have immediately.
 
rob norton said:
Are you abandoning your PC HEDT build? I have a shopping cart ready with a list of PC parts which would be a powerful super computer for my needs. I'm finishing the edit on a big project then was going to buy it but I'm hesitant again!

My plan was to have the PC desktop as a comfortable, dedicated editing station (for 5-10 years) then add a smaller apple product for transfers in the field, working with other "creatives" who almost always have apple laptops and a more enjoyable smaller computer.

Do you think holding off for the M1 16" to use for EVERYTHING is the current smart move?
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I don't know for sure what the "smart" move is, as there are too many variables and unknowns at play - and with tech, anything could happen at any time. But, no, I am not abandoning my PC build. I still feel good about it. Here is my rationale, a conjecture filled crystal ball, so take it for what it is:

This is going to be a slow burn. As amazing as Apple's new M1 chip is, we live in an X86 world and that's simply not going to change overnight. We have yet to see how well the M1 chips will scale upwards. Even Apple's graphs showed a plateau effect, it's just that the curve rests higher. ARM has traditionally been engineered for lower TDP, so assuming there's going to be a linear scale towards the high end is premature. We also know that today, the M1 lags behind in multicore (we have yet to see what Apple can do, or charge, at the higher end of cores and TDP). But, for kicks, let's just say in 1 years time Apple has a desktop class M1 chip that bests everything else out on the market right now by 50% in both single and multicore. That would be incredible... but it will still be Apple exclusive and a ways off on the PC platform, and thus likely come at a premium (very premium?) cost for that higher, pro-end of things. Not just the cost of the chip, but the complete system - RAM and everything else that comes along with it. And it's still at least a year out.

There's also more caveats: we don't know anything about the PCI-Express architecture and interconnect. We know very little about what they can do with a discreet ARM GPU or if other GPUs (ie nvidia) would work with the platform (probably not), and if apple's ARM GPU will come anywhere close to rivaling the RTX 3000 series today let alone what's out in 18 months. How will applications that are programmed for NVIDIA CUDA fair on a new ARM architecture? This could take time too. And whenever this desktop class M1 does come, how is compatibility across the board with a library of plugins and everything else? With pro-level M1 chips, they are going to be a tiny market minority - how will developer support be? Probably last place in a world dominated by 90% x86 chips. The list goes on.

I am not at all being a downer on the M1 chips, as my other posts show I am extremely (extremely) impressed. While I've had some hesitation myself after seeing this, I also have been on this rodeo too many times. I'm being very realistic from a professional standpoint that this is likely going to be a slower burn until I want my daily grind machine to run on a new and untested platform. I've just consistently seen this is my life with tech. The hype is real, the potential is real, but here we are 15 years later after dual core chips came to market and we're just recently starting to finally see things really take advantage of multi-core computers.

My system build is going to be a Ryzen 5950x, RTX 3090 (I want the 24gb of VRAM), 128gb DDR4 3600, and a 2TB PCI-E 4.0 nvme SSD, plus storage etc. etc. Its a killer system that works, today, with every plugin etc. - no fuss. It's still much faster than anything Apple has out, and on the whole, it really does remain to be seen if the M1 GPU and higher TDP/Core count chips can leapfrog such a system. I think the biggest gains are going to be on the lower end in mobile, with much more modest gains higher up the chain. But, we'll see. Either way, this system is expandable and upgradeable which means I can likely keep pace for cheaper than the cost of whatever Apple will want for its high tier systems. The M1 cpus show incredible potential, but the reality is they won't be a fully rounded competitor to such a system for a while, and it's all a giant unknown right now.

I think this system will serve me very well for many years. Eeven if Apple does the incredible on the high end and comes out with a workstation platform that is 50% faster in every single metric (from single core to multicore, to CPU to GPU, and that is fully compatible with everything, with no teething problems or caveats etc.) by the end of their "2 year transition", a few thoughts: (1) Two years used to be the average computer upgrade cycle, (2) my new workstation won't suddenly be slower, and a 50% increase is great, but probably over optimistic, and definitely not "have to upgrade today" status (3) don't hold your breath for it to be a bargain deal on the pro end (4) 2022 is a ways away to wait for such a best case scenario.

I'm pretty bullish on this new architecture, but for the next couple years, I think its going to be most important primarily to mobile workstations (I am going to wait to upgrade my 2013 MBP for the ARM macbook pro, for sure!). On the desktop workstation front, the soonest I see it being a very smooth transition would be at the tail end of Apple's claimed 2 year transition time. And I'm simply not waiting 2 years to "see what happens" when I have a 2012 desktop severely in need of an upgrade. More likely, I see the ripple effects of this new desktop architecture being a true discussion piece closer to mid decade than I do to today (once you factor in the many things pro workstations are looking for).

On the mobile consumer front, though? All hell just broke lose! Popcorn to see what happens next. Enjoy the show... for me I'll be enjoying the show from my Ryzen 5950x! :D
 
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The M1 is a huge deal. Its not just raw performance here but how cool and quiet these things run and how long the battery can last. This isn't doubling the size of the laptop to fit in a larger battery but having a light and portable machine with huge amounts of run time. Tasks that would normally kill a Intel MBP battery in a few hours don't see to impact the battery life a ton on the M1 MBPs. Thats pretty huge for anybody that actually uses their laptop as a laptop.

We also have to remember while this is a 8 core CPU its only really using 4 cores for high performance tasks like rendering. A 4 core beating a 8 core and higher CPU is really impressive.

Even on the GPU side. So far it seems to beat the 560X which up until November 2019 was the higher end GPU of the 16" MBP unless one upgraded to the Vega 20. It may even be better than the Vega MBP options. That means for Mac users they suddenly get GPU performance on a entry level Mac they could once only get on the higher end 16" option. Lots of video and other pros use 16" MBPs with the 560, 560X or even the base 555 GPU. Lots use a iMac with GPUs under the 580X which may also not be much faster than the M1 if at all.

The entry level Macs to me were always exciting due to their size and portability but the GPU was horrendous. That really isn't the case anymore. I bought a 2018 i7 Mac mini to use a eGPU and its a great system but to be honest its also kind of a hassle to babysit and fix all the time and I hardly ever push the Vega 56 very much. A M1 Mac mini with at least slightly better than 560X GPU levels better than any MBP before 2019 would be very welcome alternative.

The Ram is another interesting topic and some reviews have indicated that they never noticed any performance hit when the system had to use a swap file when it ran out of Ram. The SSD is so fast in these things now to at least match DDR1 Ram speeds. Not nearly as fast as DDR4 but once you get to a certain speed level its hard to measure a small task that mean a difference of milliseconds. Swap files sucked when we had 5400 RPM HDDs but not so much now. Plus the integrated structure of the Ram may make better use of how the Ram is used and 16 GB could be similar to having 32 GB on a Intel Mac. From a cost perspective Apple Ram was always very expensive upgrade. Now 16 GB is $200 but it can provide performance similar to what a 32 GB Intel Mac may provide. That means the Apple Ram upgrades may no longer be over priced per performance gains that Ram may provide. A lot of the reviews out there right now are based on the base 8 GB Ram models that could be picked up in stores. The custom models with 16 GB will not arrive until next week. The performance is already impressive.
 
Well, with crypto booming (aka graphics cards in demand spiking again), and M1 roll out being slow, I have to put up with this slow config I have going.
 
I expect that the announcement of Intel working with TSMC to manufacture Xe GPUs helped TSMC quite a bit, along with the US-exluding trade alliance...
 
filmguy123 said:
I don't think so. When you compare x86 based apps on x86 windows vs mac you don't see differentials like that, they are generally pretty close.
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But what if it's the OS the apps are running on that makes the difference. Windows has been one of the biggest software kludges ever made. I've been using it since Windows 3.1 came out ( along with Mac PowerPC beasties for almost a decade ), and today with the latest Windows 10 Pro I still stumble across lots of kludgy weirdness all over the place.

This is why I would like to see the same Linux OS running on x86 and M1 hardware, with both platforms running the same Linux apps. This would remove Windows OS from the equation and might show different results.
 
indiawilds said:
Can someone tell me if the 13" new apple chip MBP can handle nicely the new 8k files of EOS R5 and other 8k footage. I mean if you are selling the 2018 15" for a 13" then how much better is the new 13". Wonder why the new 13" doesn't have more than 16 gb
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He did what I was going to do (before cancelling for now).

I was going to tell you that the M1 has no problem (presumably thinking it wouldn't), and then link to his video when he showed his $15,000 MP having a problem.

But the man himself is saying it...around 9:55.

Just pure insanity.

 
M1 Mac Mini with 16GB, 1TB and 6K XDR 32" display !

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I was watching all the youtube videos today. I actually changed my mind on the mini and put it in my b&h cart. Did you say there's a month wait dam I want to save the tax.... I still might do it... Anything less than 1tb ssd 16gb ram would be foolish. Tempted by the 2tb but that's an extra $400 you could put into a 4k monitor.
 
I didn't check every color and configuration across all three models, but about 8 options I checked for 16GB of RAM all had about a month or so waiting/delay (on the Apple site).

Many base models with 8GB of RAM were available for pick-up tomorrow.

All subject to change.
 
Peter C. said:
I was watching all the youtube videos today. I actually changed my mind on the mini and put it in my b&h cart. Did you say there's a month wait dam I want to save the tax.... I still might do it... Anything less than 1tb ssd 16gb ram would be foolish. Tempted by the 2tb but that's an extra $400 you could put into a 4k monitor.
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This guy did order it with the 2TB and traded in his MBP :
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NorBro said:
He did what I was going to do (before cancelling for now).

I was going to tell you that the M1 has no problem (presumably thinking it wouldn't), and then link to his video when he showed his $15,000 MP having a problem.

But the man himself is saying it...around 9:55.

Just pure insanity.

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Awesome. The tech looks impressive. Wish Apple had refreshed the top end Mackbook pros. That 2 TB SSD appears a bit costly though.
 
Wow. I'm super impressed. My Windows desktop is still working OK, but whenever I upgrade it a couple of years from now it very well might be to a Mac.
 
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