Appeal to moderators for understanding.

[cyvideo]

Dear moderators.

Please let me put forward a case for your balanced opinion and judgement. An appeal in fact.

The whole world is facing, including the production industry the most damaging impact to society that the world has seen in at least one hundred years. This popular forum dedicated to the production industry and all things pertinent to that industry has decided to shut down any further discussion on this global disaster, the Covid pandemic. To have no further discussion on the greatest impact to human life, liberty and business since WWII is surely a tragedy in a truly free society. Surely what goes on in the greater world is a legitimate a discussion in a free society and in turn our industry which is part of that free society. The advice and information swapped between DVX users is often used by members to develop their technical knowledge, their skills and to polish up their business techniques and hone their business skills.

I am speaking for myself... and possibly some others. I am massively disappointed to see what I believed to be a forum that espoused free speech brings about the closure of a thread whose topic though not directly television, video or film centric is none the less very much a point of societal discussion. A thread that can reflect and focus on how many of us in our professional lives are trying to work out how we go about running and structuring our film, television and video businesses. In these trying times DVXuser can provide an essential avenue of discussion for the whole industry. Many DVXuser members are by the nature of this industry freelancers and free agents. This DVXuser forum has been for many of us a good spot to congregate and drop in and discuss many a topic relating to work, our equipment, our lives, our businesses and life in general. For many individual freelancers especially ones who don't work in major metropolitan centres and that are more industry isolated forums like DVXuser are an important if not fairly essential part of their interaction with the industry we work in. It is where feedback is gained, where help can be obtained. It is this feedback and help that can help in decision making. In these extraordinary times discussions about things other than the specific TV and film and production topics can be quite cathartic and help formulate ideas directly and indirectly that may assist some of us. To assist some of us to come to terms with the new reality of a world we still have to somehow work in and more importantly survive and live in.

The Covid threads whilst not industry centric does help to give us a general feeling of what is going down in society. Seeing and hearing others in similar situations discussing the societal upheavals in their fields of endeavour does help dispel the notion that we as individuals are not alone in trying to sort out some kind of direction in this mess. I don't think the Covid threads have got overly political or partisan. Many of us come from around the globe so I don't think the discussion could become overtly partisan in the American political sense.

The global reach of this forum is quite extensive. Let those outside of North America see how a forum like DVXuser does not shy away from controversy. Be bold. Let the users discuss openly matters of concern. One just has to look at how many readers watch the Covid threads. Does not that indicate to you that this topic is of great interest to your DVXusers? Be bold in these extraordinary times. Take extraordinary steps and let the discussion run. As normality and sanity returns to our world the topic will start to wane of its own accord as the reality of running our businesses comes back to us.

Please I ask again for you to reconsider your decision to close any Covid specific threads. If I or any other contributor gets too overtly political warn us. If we don't heed the warning punt us but please do not succumb to, harsh words I know, censoring discussion. In times of major societal disruption and upheaval it is forums like DVXuser that can shine a light of balanced reason into the gloom of this economic and social chaos we as part of society have to navigate through. Be a touch stone, be that light.

Please reconsider.

Yours in all sincerity.

Chris Young.

An international DVXer

 

[cpreston]

I also wish that the discussion hadn't been locked, although I am sure that I am one of the people that got the discussion locked. Personally, I could go onto some other news analysis forum to get an idea of what the world is thinking about the current predicament, but dvxuser gives me a chance to hear how other people in my industry are trying to understand what is happening. We have a very specific perspective due to the way our business works that really isn't mirrored in the vast majority of other professions. Unfortunately, I don't think you can understand the coronavirus impact without understanding the politics of the situation. Almost every government has taken direct control of the economic and health care of their countries. Each government and its citizens has a different perspective and goals. While I think politics should be shut out of every other forum, it seems like the "off topic" forum might be an exception.

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

Unfortunately, I don't think you can understand the coronavirus impact without understanding the politics of the situation.

And as long as people keep bringing that into the discussion it well get locked.

 

[kevin baggott]

I had been reading some of those Covid specific threads as well. I did not know they were closed. What a shame! It's such a chicken **** industry I find myself in. Frankly I'm not surprised...

 

[kevin baggott]

How long do we have to stay in the room for? When we get out can we watch 30 minutes of 'Exposed! Pro Wrestling's Greatest Secrets'? Just 30 minutes? 20?

 

[filmguy123]

I’d like to retitle this “an appeal to people like cpreston for I understanding” - we all want to talk to each other about this and there are plenty of ways to do so without bringing politics in. It is understood by all that this precludes the conversation from being all encompassing, and that’s ok. Please stop ruining it for all of us. Really, it’s not that hard.

 

[Batutta]

I'm kind of burnt out on the subject anyway, and most of those discussions ended up going in circles. This is going to be a long haul and I, personally, need to step back and consume my Covid-19 information in smaller doses if i'm going to survive this in a mentally healthy state.

 

[OldCorpse]

C'mon the rules re: politics & religion have been around for years and years. We all know that. These are good rules. DVXUSER is a dedicated topic-specific site. I've seen many such sites destroyed by politics and religion - no one ever convinces anyone else and all it ends up is creating ill-feeling among members. If you want politics and religion, there are plenty of sites all over the internet. No need to destroy a site dedicated to our industry.

There's a "cafe" section, to create comity and a sense of community that's not focused exclusively on equipment and our industry - that's not a license to violate the rules, rules, which I repeat, exist for very, very, very good reasons.

Yes, many topics are hard to discuss without shading into politics. Which is why we need to mind our own posts - think before you post "is this politics", and if "yes", then just don't do it, or stop short. Sometimes the balance is tricky - I too have struggled with approaching the line and not crossing it. It's a gray area. Unfortunately, folks take the gray to mean free license. That's why we can't have nice things. Several times on that locked thread I saw it shade unacceptably full on into politics. On a couple of occasion I've even tried to re-rail it back on subject, but it's a losing battle. And then it gets locked - completely understandably.

I don't blame the moderators. They have a tough upaid job. Do I agree with all rules here - no, f.ex. the non-piss in the pool rule I think is terrible, but I still accept it, because I'm not doing the job of moderating. It's easy to criticize the performance of others.

It's sad that the thread got locked. But there really was no choice, as folks started going blatantly full on political.

If there's something that's specific to our industry wrt. COVID, then this site is a valuable resource. But if all you want to do is discuss COVID in general then there are plenty of other sites - dvxuser has no advantage here, so it's not like this is the only place to discuss COVID.

This is a terrble pandemic and understandably people's emotions are running high. All the more reason to avoid topics that bring only more strife with little illumination.

The thread is locked. You can still read it, you just can't post. If you have something very important to say - that's not political - start a new thread; COVID won't run away, you have plenty of opportunity.

 

[mothmachine]

If there's something that's specific to our industry wrt. COVID, then this site is a valuable resource. But if all you want to do is discuss COVID in general then there are plenty of other sites - dvxuser has no advantage here, so it's not like this is the only place to discuss COVID.

Actually I don't know of many places to discuss this issue with people not in my own political bubble, or maybe anywhere. They probably exist for a savvy person to find -- but the public square just isn't what it used to be.

I thought it was nice to discuss these things while being careful not to cross a certain line and getting too specific. But perhaps that's just not possible nowadays -- just about everything has a political edge. This is really unfortunate; we are losing our ability to talk to people across the chasm of our worldviews.

 

[cpreston]

I’d like to retitle this “an appeal to people like cpreston for I understanding” - we all want to talk to each other about this and there are plenty of ways to do so without bringing politics in. It is understood by all that this precludes the conversation from being all encompassing, and that’s ok. Please stop ruining it for all of us. Really, it’s not that hard.

All I am saying is that it is completely impossible to understand the "Coronavirus Impact" without understanding the politics of the situation. Any recovery of our industry and our economy will be as a result of political decisions.

I agree with Batutta. I am burnt out trying to understand what is going on. It's time to step back and hunker down. At least in the US, nothing is changing in our business until May at the earliest. Until then, all "news" about our business and economy is just partisan blathering because nobody knows what is going on or how this will turn out. The same goes for almost all of the science coverage. So instead, I'm just going to do test shots with my goats. Hopefully, they will stand still while I do a filter test that I've been wanting to get done.

 

[filmguy123]

I don’t disagree with the notion that it’s inherently a political issue and leaving that out makes it, by definition, an incomplete discussion.

All I’m saying is that the rules are very clear and we’ve had threads shut already. Just breaking the rules and hoping for a different outcome isn’t productive. And I understand the position of the moderators. The reality is, these things can become explosive and cause members to permanently leave the forum or create a very toxic environment. Personally I’d rather see the community here maintained than torn apart by political disagreements, as relevant as they are to the topic.

I do value the input of people here that I’ve become familiar with over many years and would rather have the ability to discuss the topic in part. I’ve enjoyed hearing thoughts from across the globe and learned perspectives I wouldn’t have otherwise even without political topics brought up.

Do I wish we could all be non partisan and completely level headed regarding any political topic? Of course. But the rules are in place because we know that’s not the case and it’s demonstrably not even as of this week.

We’re all burnt out on the topic but as stated, this is a long haul, and I think new developments will be forthcoming in a variety of areas that will be worth discussing in the coming months. I hope this forum remains a place where the topic can be safely and calmly discussed, and that responsibility falls on us.

 

[Barry_Green]

C'mon the rules re: politics & religion have been around for years and years. We all know that. These are good rules. DVXUSER is a dedicated topic-specific site. I've seen many such sites destroyed by politics and religion - no one ever convinces anyone else and all it ends up is creating ill-feeling among members. If you want politics and religion, there are plenty of sites all over the internet. No need to destroy a site dedicated to our industry.

There's a "cafe" section, to create comity and a sense of community that's not focused exclusively on equipment and our industry - that's not a license to violate the rules, rules, which I repeat, exist for very, very, very good reasons.

Exactly.

And...

It's sad that the thread got locked. But there really was no choice, as folks started going blatantly full on political.

EXACTLY.

And...

If there's something that's specific to our industry wrt. COVID, then this site is a valuable resource. But if all you want to do is discuss COVID in general then there are plenty of other sites - dvxuser has no advantage here, so it's not like this is the only place to discuss COVID.

E X A C T L Y !!!

Look -- if you want to discuss how we in this industry cope with the virus, go right ahead. If you want to discuss how this is impacting your business, or other businesses, and how the industry will change, go right ahead. If you want to discuss the creative challenges in making content during a "social distancing" epidemic, go right ahead.

If you want to bring up Fox News and The Guardian and who's a murderous empire and who's lying about what drugs work and who's lying about statistics and whose leader is incompetent and whose society is uncivilized and all that -- what the living hell does that have to do with us here? That's just general political blather, and you can do that literally ANY OTHER PLACE ON THE INTERNET.

If you have something very important to say - that's not political - start a new thread; COVID won't run away, you have plenty of opportunity.

Again, Exactly.

 

[Barry_Green]

Actually I don't know of many places to discuss this issue with people not in my own political bubble, or maybe anywhere. They probably exist for a savvy person to find -- but the public square just isn't what it used to be.

I thought it was nice to discuss these things while being careful not to cross a certain line and getting too specific. But perhaps that's just not possible nowadays -- just about everything has a political edge. This is really unfortunate; we are losing our ability to talk to people across the chasm of our worldviews.

And that's what makes me sick about it too. You know, one of the moderators asked why the thread was finally locked, even after it had been let to run past several very obvious violations, and this was a sanitized version of my response:

The situation parallels the virus. I tried surgical containment (individual bans on violators), I tried social distancing (introducing posts to change the topic away from the poisonous content), I tried government quarantines (thread locks), all in a futile attempt to flatten the curve (avoid the political poison from building up), but we still ended up with an overrun emergency room (runaway political epidemic.)

Once again, show the slightest leniency in the rules and it will inevitably spiral into a complete fecal tornado. Once you get morons from other countries criticizing how your own country is run, and people bringing up The Guardian and Fox News, there's no choice but to burn the whole place down to try to eradicate the infection.

It's disappointing because these threads are extremely popular, it's obvious that folks need and want a place to discuss stuff, but... The R0 is just too strong.

So what else are we supposed to do? Letting DVXUser turn into a "fecal tornado" is not an option. Discussions about the topic are fine, as you've seen I've participated in them quite a bit, but just please for the love of God STAY AWAY FROM THE *** **** POLITICS and we'll be fine!

And if someone can't do that, then they should please feel free to **** off to some other site, because we don't need, don't want, and won't tolerate that poison here.

 

[Barry_Green]

All I am saying is that it is completely impossible to understand the "Coronavirus Impact" without understanding the politics of the situation. Any recovery of our industry and our economy will be as a result of political decisions.

Yes, it will. And there's not a thing you or I can do about it HERE, so commenting on the wisdom or idiocy of said decisions HERE is ultimately futile, irrelevant, divisive, and against the rules. So why not just save your breath, ignore that whole infuriating aspect of it, and focus instead on what YOU are doing, what YOU can do, and what you've observed others in the industry doing, that will help? Things that will help you, help others, help us to cope. And bitching about whose media is lying the most is NOT in that category.

I agree with Batutta. I am burnt out trying to understand what is going on. It's time to step back and hunker down. At least in the US, nothing is changing in our business until May at the earliest. Until then, all "news" about our business and economy is just partisan blathering because nobody knows what is going on or how this will turn out. The same goes for almost all of the science coverage. So instead, I'm just going to do test shots with my goats. Hopefully, they will stand still while I do a filter test that I've been wanting to get done.

And that I agree with 1,000%. Create content, learn, share, that's what DVXUser's always been about. Get stock footage of abandoned big cities. Run tests you've wanted to run. Finish your screenplay or take an online course or master stop-motion animation or learn 3-D. And share what you've learned, what great resources you've found, what new app makes it a thousand times easier.

For those who only want to lash out, complain, *****, and whine about the media coverage or political policies of your own or others' countries and the relative intelligence level of all those involved, you can expenct an instant 2-week ban with no further explanation.

 

[Barry_Green]

Just breaking the rules and hoping for a different outcome isn’t productive.

EXACTLY.

Personally I’d rather see the community here maintained than torn apart by political disagreements, as relevant as they are to the topic.

Thank you for understanding. That has been our position on the topic for over 17 years, and it has worked very well for us for that time.

We’re all burnt out on the topic but as stated, this is a long haul, and I think new developments will be forthcoming in a variety of areas that will be worth discussing in the coming months. I hope this forum remains a place where the topic can be safely and calmly discussed, and that responsibility falls on us.

Exactly.

 

[Barry_Green]

How long do we have to stay in the room for? When we get out can we watch 30 minutes of 'Exposed! Pro Wrestling's Greatest Secrets'? Just 30 minutes? 20?

It's profoundly simple:
Those who are complying don't have to stay in any room.

Those who insist on violating the rules won't be able to stay in this room.

 

[Paul F]

The virus can most certainly be talked about without politics. There is so much that can be discussed; dealing with the business situation, filing for relief, how to handle debt, mortgages, finding new revenue streams, finding disinfectant, dealing with prevention, dealing with being cooped up, your fears, your successes, what measures you're taking, and actually, aspects of law and government decisions likely can be discussed. Look at the California AB-5 discussion. That was/is successfully being discussed at length, talking about politicians, law, and the effects of legislature with the exception of a few morons, it went on quite well.

If you think the virus can't be discussed without politics, then don't discuss the virus.

 

[DLD]

... I'm just going to do test shots with my goats...

Do your goats lean left or right and is any of them named Tom Brady?

PS. As to sanitizers -- for hands, a dish washing liquid is fine; for paper towels, any general purpose cleaner in a diluted form; for the moderators, vodka, internally.

 

[combatentropy]

I performed my postmortem on the deceased. Thank you, moderators, for leaving evidence. When I read the last page, what went through my mind was what OldCorpse said:

That's why we can't have nice things.

Even if I had not known the thread was locked, I could practically see the key turning.

But wait a minute. Turn back a few pages, and there are politics. The stimulus package. Even OldCorpse goes into a post or two about how we can't trust the CDC anymore, because of the flip-flop on the face masks. Is OldCorpse a hypocrite? In fact am I being a hypocrite? A month ago I started a thread with a very similar title, pleading for more leeway in discussing "politics."

But it did not cross my mind that he was being political. It did not cross my mind that a moderator might be hovering a hand over the Lock button. I think it's because it was not partisan. Both Democrats and Republicans are in favor (this time) of a stimulus package, and neither Democrats nor Republicans are going to publicly defend lying to the American people about face masks. On the other hand, the posts at the end of the thread were about Fox News and Trump and government-funded healthcare. Opinions on those things fall along party lines. Related, some posts seem to criticize whole countries. So that is also partisan: Team A vs. Team B.

Anyway, that's my take. If you want to touch on politics and the coronavirus, it had better be on a non-partisan issue. Even then, there's no guarantee.

 

[cyvideo]

These responses are good. Since being in this forum this is the first time I've seen moderators globally outline to all readers the guidelines regarding the rules and where the borders of discussion are. Now all of us have a better idea of what will be tolerated. Thanks for that. I fully agree that there are numerous other forums worldwide where one can discuss the impact of Covid. That being said there are very few other forums where in can be discussed from the unique perspective of our industry. Stay well all.

Chris Young

P.S. OT.
Would a 9,100 mile ride, the circumference of Australia in 14 days qualfy as an Iron Butt ride? Did it ' 71 when 80% of Highway #1 was a dirt road and where 60% of the ride was in over 100 degrees Fahrenheit temps. 750 Honda K1.