FS7: Another Baseplate/Shoulder pad/Rig thread for FS7 thread

morgan_moore said:
Either move it back OR add mass - either works - one is not right or wrong (as you imply) - pick your devil.
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Fair enough. My argument is that moving the camera body back is counter to the camera's design. Doing so introduces a host of issues that are not introduced with counter weight. Issues such as increased difficulty in accessing side controls while shooting, placement of an iris ring in a more difficult to operate position, a less stable frame when long lens since the sensor plane is closer to the pivot point of the total mass instead of being out in front of the center point of the total mass. ( fore / aft tilting of the camera moves the frame more than when the sensor plane is forward of the pivot point. Something that occurs when shooting with DLSR's where the sensor plane is located at the center of the camera's total mass and results in the "jittery" look. )

There is no wrong or right, as you note. My opinions and preferences are just that, opinion and preference. My apology if I came across as declaring THE way to do things. We will all hotrod and customized as we see fit, to fit our own preferences, shooting styles, and needs. In fact, we should start a "Show us your Fs7 rig!" thread where owners can post pictures of their rigs as they develop.

I am waiting on arrival of some accessories but once they arrive and I have them fitted I will post a photo of my rig.

A thank you to Morgan and all who share input on this forum. I have learned much from others and I have picked up several useful tips such as the Commlite adapter that has made my shooting much more enjoyable. Inverting the mic holder on the Fs7 was another great tip posted here.
 
We agree - nothing works well :)

To me Ive been lugging F3+SmallHD+Vlock+BreakoutBox+Hyperdeck shuttle.. and heavy Satchler sticks on solo op jobs.

My personal excitement is to dump all of that stuff (and move to small miller sticks with a crappy frotto head) for solo jobs - that load has been killing me.

In the summer I shot a feature with many OTS dialogue takes of many minutes - good shoulder balance was critical. I also had people to carry my kit. Returning to that shooting situation I would go back to the big Vlock rig which is so balanced I can let go.

I was chatting offline today to someone who wants to shoot solo and remote mountains - he has C100,Nija Vlock - I was bigging up that he could probably save pounds by going FS7

S
 
morgan_moore said:
We agree - nothing works well :)

To me Ive been lugging F3+SmallHD+Vlock+BreakoutBox+Hyperdeck shuttle.. and heavy Satchler sticks on solo op jobs.

My personal excitement is to dump all of that stuff (and move to small miller sticks with a crappy frotto head) for solo jobs - that load has been killing me.

S
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I've been using the Fs7 in a cradled position often. Back of camera body against my right bicep and my right forearm supporting the weight of the camera, right hand on control grip which I position parallel to the ground. It requires a bit of a hunched position if you want to have your eye on the loupe but it's fairly stable. Just the weight of the Chrosziel plate gave the shots more stability. I see that one company has already come out with an adapter that allows you to mount full-size batteries on the back without having to purchase the extension unit. That gives the Fs7 some counterweight on the rear without having to spend $2k for the extension unit. Although my Sound Ops would prefer I purchase the ext. unit. They are a bit miffed that there is no time code in or out that they can use to sync the internal recording they do on their fancy new mixers. And the Fs7 in out of box form doesn't give them much space to mount Lectro wireless receivers. They are liking the physical audio pots on the side of the camera, however. They weren't wild about the F5's menu-only audio input setup.
 
My battery wobbles/rattles - its one of the things I dislike about the camera - using the batt port as a vlock extension does not float my boat.

Ill post my rig when I have a mo.

S
 
Has anyone come across a good choice for a rosette extension arm with dummy grip for the left front mount that matches the average position of the right grip for operating and resting the rig between takes?
 
Ben Scott said:
Not sure that is normal. Mine certainly doesn't rattle.
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Interesting - maybe check again - Im only talking minor - im a very sensitive chap for such things - like you might expect on a Ford but not on a BMW (supposedly)

But is does annoy me and have concerns about getting worse over time.

Ive got various (sony not fake) batts going back to EX1 days so ill check with the newest one.

S
 
Wooden Camera baseplate arrived. Put some bits together to see if the Miller Air could handle everything on it.

DSC07513_zpse27d8bea.jpg



FS7, Shoot35 Mattebox and Shoot35 R3 Follow Focus, Commlite adapter and Zeiss 28mm f2. WC Baseplate and rosette extension.

Currently have two shot carbon 15mm rods on there but will get some longer ones to go under the camera to afix that small Zacuto shoulder pad and rail mount when I need handheld. On the max counterweight setting on the tripod everything was perfectly balanced and smooth as silk and stays in place when tilted. Tripod plate can be moved back and forth to accommodate and balance heavier/lighter lenses.

Just waiting on the extension unit now. And a Shogun if that turns out to not be vapourware.
 
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Yes although theres a 15mm rail addon for it so with some longer rails on my setup it could clamp on right underneath.
 
morgan_moore said:
My battery wobbles/rattles - its one of the things I dislike about the camera - using the batt port as a vlock extension does not float my boat.

Ill post my rig when I have a mo.

S
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What size BP battery, Sam? If I remember correctly my BP 90 does not rattle but the BP 60 does.

The product I mentioned attaches to the top rear of the Fs7 using the same mounts as the extension unit. It does not use the BP battery slot in any manner-

FS72-600x393.jpg

I add that the position of the LCD / Loupe in that photo is ridiculous. I can only assume they positioned it like that in order to have a clear view of the rig's cage. No way you could operate with it like that!

More photos of Tilta Fs7 accessories here, including that v-mount battery adapter-

http://www.cinegearpro.com/tilta-rig-for-sony-pxw-fs7.html
 
I really like that tilta battery plate. If it's prices right I might grab it up. Personally I can't justify the extension unit from Sony till it's a demand. This battery plate might be a good compromise of cost/balance/battery life
 
OK you will all laugh!.

Top plate, home milled, will mill off more to reduce mass later.

Top handle thinwall square section - super light, connected at rear to allow use of handle with hand over CofM of camera

Rosettes lead to square section arm to EFV - square to square means the EVF horizon is held. EVF arm swings through an arc to allow offset to left to match my left dominant eye and uses the minimum EVF cable distance - allowing the most fore positioning of the EVF.

Top handle at front supports mic mini boom held by rosette and french flag on noga arm

Rear, removable 'audio section' has Lav on and cnc ply cut cable manager. This allows shotgun to use a 3m lead which unwraps for reporter to vox and also looks after my cans between takes.

Underside has rods bolted direct to camera underside onto a frotto 501 plate , the plate is placed forwards so the CofM of the camera is toward the rear of the plate. Shoulder is tucked as close to the plate as possible.

So on sticks CofM is one inch rear heavy, on shoulder it is one inch front heavy

Chimney abandoned and exchanged for Laser Ply screen cover.

Control handle completely abandoned.

Yellow stickers on body lead me (by touch - they are raised) to focus mag (assign3) and menu.

You can have a rig for show.. or a rig to go. this works for the solo op.


rig.jpg
 
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Forgive me if this has been brought up somewhere in the previous 134 posts, I haven't been able to read all. Handhold ergonomics are of course entirely subjective. I myself insist on a completely balanced camera because I feel that any amount of fighting against off-center balance (generally front-heavy) will affect the stability of the shot and contribute significantly to operator fatigue which will in turn further affect stability. There are certain instances where a compact front to back camera is a good thing, such as shooting handheld in a car, up against walls in a tight space, or sidling laterally through doorways but most of the time a little extra length isn't a problem and it will make the camera more inert as well as shift back the CG to a comfortable spot. As far as shoulder pads are concerned, the massively padded and elevated add-ons that materialized in the DSLR era do more harm than good by raising up the CG.

For me for many years, the best solution has been a flat base so I can slide the camera fore and aft to find the CG with a given lens or accessory combo and move the eyepiece to my eye. Padding can come via a rubber pad that can be adjusted via velcro along the base, or a shoulder pad worn on the body. I see no real point in the cut-out unless it can migrate fore and aft significantly (the Amira does this admirably). Any extra stability offered by the cut-out is erased if it results in a front-heavy camera mass. Along those lines, I also don't get the super-long handles on these rigs that just keep adding front weight. FYI many working operators prefer to grab onto the sides of the matte box rather than use handles (not a clip-on, obviously).

Best handheld camera ergonomics: a low, wide mass with the CG over the shoulder. Avoid accessories that tower up above the camera unnecessarily, they will just add to instability. Telescoping rods out the back with a vertical pro-style battery are a great way to help counterbalance the front end, and mount any additional accessories.
 
Of course completely true - for the cinema DP.

In building this camera I have personally taken the shoulder about one inch behind the CofM and absolutely minimised the mass of the rig where possible.

My rig (in this form) will batter my body least for a day both carting it around and actually operating - trade loss of foreaft balance for reduction in total mass.

S
 
morgan_moore said:
OK you will all laugh!.
……...
Underside has rods bolted direct to camera underside onto a frotto 501 plate , the plate is placed forwards so the CofM of the camera is toward the rear of the plate.
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HaHa - You're right about that Sam but I admire your ingenuity and agree- whatever works - as long as you don't alienate clients by looking too wacky. I thought people would laugh at my rig on the previous page.

I'm curious about how you bolted rails on the Manfrotto plate (if I got that right) - pics?

I would like to be able rotate the Sony handle clockwise a bit (toward my shoulder) so my hand was angled the way it wants to be to hold up weight. Seems like it would need some kind of rosette adapter that led to a tube you could turn to taste and then lock off.
Anyone ever see something like that?

Lenny
 
As soon as you have a fluffy on top people know you are the person working and to be talked to :)

I have a milling machine so ive basically made the smallest arrangement I can..

The compromise is the rods cannot tool less adjust - I have them set at the front to stay out of shot with a 20mm/booster*, at the back im still considering the lenght...

I might chop them right off, leave a few inches to make the thing not ground the camera when placed on the floor or leave them at the current lenght which is just long enough to catch a Vlock at the back if I decide I want that mode available .

I dont use a MB or FF (for solo) so dont care about rod height - I still have my F3 monster rig which can work with MB, supported zoom and other 'cine' setups - Ill probably strip this rig to the minimum and swap to the 'cine' rig for bigger crew shoots.

rods.jpg

*20mm and booster is quite short - a lens like the 14mm nikkor is so much physically larger that I hope they still wont show in shot.

S
 
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morgan_moore said:
Of course completely true - for the cinema DP.

In building this camera I have personally taken the shoulder about one inch behind the CofM and absolutely minimised the mass of the rig where possible.

My rig (in this form) will batter my body least for a day both carting it around and actually operating - trade loss of foreaft balance for reduction in total mass.

S
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I can't see what's under the headphones, Sam, but if it was extended back further you might be able to shift the CG centered to your shoulder without adding any weight. Likewise, that mike could come lower and further back, and the Noga arm for the eyebrow could be swapped out for something lighter that could do the same thing (remember the old flexible shafts for the Lowel lights back in the day, or do they still have those?!). All of that would help your cause and hopefully lighten the load?
 
CharlesPapert said:
I can't see what's under the headphones, Sam, but if it was extended back further you might be able to shift the CG centered to your shoulder without adding any weight. Likewise, that mike could come lower and further back, and the Noga arm for the eyebrow could be swapped out for something lighter that could do the same thing (remember the old flexible shafts for the Lowel lights back in the day, or do they still have those?!). All of that would help your cause and hopefully lighten the load?
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Under the cans is a Lav receiver. The 'audio section' is a bit of metal I had - yes it could go back if I made a longer one as I may do as I get a feel for the setup (but also not so good in a car etc)

The mic - if Im doing a top vox I want to get close to the mouth but yep it is heavy and fighting the wrong fight - mainly the mic is detached and handed to the reporter - there are enough holes in the cheese bar to move it back should I desire (also the rig will have a 'coat' for rain - moving the mic back will clash with that!)

Yep the shitty fake noga arm is heavy and too long - I could swap it out for something more Gucci - either a genuine Noga(?) or the pipe that passes coolant on a lathe (gorrilla pod stuff) etc.

Ill get the bits nicer and maybe anodized when I 'find' the set up.

S
 
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