FS7: Another Baseplate/Shoulder pad/Rig thread for FS7 thread

I find the Chrosziel and most of the FS7 baseplates an abomination in ergonomics. The rosette mounts are an error in my opinion - they force you to push the camera further forward whilst the baseplate shoulder pad keeps going back, hence making the rig front heavy.

I think the Zacuto baseplate is the best option, precisely because of the lack of a fixed rosette mount.
 
I am almost thinking it best to have the Zacuto "Big Rig" pad with VCT for shooting on & off the sticks with the back, R5 and Dionic 90 when I need those format options and the Zacuto QR Shoulder Pad with Kessler Kwik System plate for internal recording. The issue, I think, for that lighter set-up, there is no space for two wireless receivers unless there is a cold shoe mount on the top handle maybe. The Chrosziel 401-FS7 Plate with VCT is clean, solid and light with some adjustment room to slide the pad. Decisions. Decisions.


Sony FS-7, F5, PMW-500 XDCAM, Canon C300, BMCC and Panasonic HD

http://andersonvideoproductions.com/
 
That's funny, dracalat, because looking at the Zacuto setup for the Fs7 I find it to be an abomination. The Z-positioning is all "jammed up" from the looks of it.

Yes, the camera is centered over the shoulder. But look where that places the side controls and where it would place an iris ring on a lens-

Zacuto-FS7-Recoil-640x360.jpg

The iris ring would be back by your cheekbone if not by your ear. What if the operator wants to use the iris wheel on the side of the camera? Also, since that setup is quite short in length it seems it would be very "tippy" fore / aft. The Fs7, imo, benefits from a rig that increases the overall length of the camera. One reason that broadcast cameras were so stable was their length. Image stability is aided by mass and length. Long and heavy makes for a nice stable shot. Short and lightweight does not. Also, when the sensor plane ( or film plane ) is at the center of a camera's overall length it makes the resulting image less stable. Look at "Hollywood" cameras when used handheld. The film plane is fore of the cameras mid point, fore of the operator's shoulder-

Mei-001_cameraman_350h_XP.gif

Note where the shoulder pad for the Amira places the sensor plane: ahead of the shoulder and the sensor plane is fore of the camera's overall mid-point-

amira1.jpg

But to each their own. Maybe I am just quirky in my preferences.
 
That universal Zacuto plate is a no go for me due to trying to fit a follow focus on in there would be a nightmare.
 
JPNola said:
Note where the shoulder pad for the Amira places the sensor plane: ahead of the shoulder and the sensor plane is fore of the camera's overall mid-point-
Click to expand...

That alexa rig would be out of balance esp with a lens like that - just cos its arri doesnt mean it is right.

Your comments about the position of the iris ring being too far back are of course correct (as are pots behind your head et al.)

Fundamentally the sony is a poor design - the mass of the camera is too far forward, the length of the EVF wire makes it worse as it limits the options

You are therefore making trade offs..

-lens control too far back
-front heavy
-add a load of mass at the rear

Pick your devil.

Personally I think the zacuto rig is the best configured but way too heavy and overkill - you dont need a matress on your shoulder for a 2kg camera.. and also height is an issue, zacuto and all the others (and the basic camera) are too high which is also bad.

Im going for the thinnest underside I can formulate.. and getting the cam as far back as the EVF lead will allow, its still front heavy but Ill take that trade off over adding extra mass.

S
 
morgan_moore said:
You are therefore making trade offs..

-lens control too far back
-front heavy
-add a load of mass at the rear

Pick your devil.
S
Click to expand...

I agree . The FS7 design has some cool points but I think its basically still front heavy like most cameras have been in the last 6 years.
I've always chosen to put the camera in front and my solution since the HVX200 has been to mount the camera on a monopod with manfrotto tilt plate that sits in a fanny pack on my waist. its not perfect, but very comfortable and pretty damn stable. Its also easy to move to the side or remove when going to a lower mode. That's the only solution I've seen to the front heavy problem.

For the FS7 i've been experimenting with a very cheap solution based on a "Shoot 35 cine base plate" and a "Fotga" $35 shoulder pad on the rails behind it. Combined with a monopod fixed to the rails its very comfortable, flexible, not that heavy, and stable.
I'll post pics soon.
 
OK here's my cheap Rube Goldberg solution for an FS7 rig.

Background is that for years I have been using a cheap Giotto sliding base plate (similar to the manfrottos) on all my cameras. Its a little undersized but seems to do the job and at that price I can put them on everything - slider, various heads, monopod and switch from one to the other in seconds. To make sure they tighten enough and can be released quickly I carry a 3mm T handle Allen wrench in my side bag at all times. I've also ground down the tightening handle to accomodate some tripod heads better.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/318567-REG/Giottos_MH621_M621_Quick_Release_Assembly.html

I've also been doing handheld by just supporting the camera on monopod with a cheap Manfrotto tilt head on it. The monopod sits in a fanny pack like a flagpole holder on my waist. its very flexible, simple and I hate every shoulder rig I've ever tried. However I've always wanted to find a way to combine it with with a shoulder support to make my handheld even steadier.

For the FS7 I got a Shoot35 cine base plate which already uses a Giottos sliding base plate. The camera is on a Giottos plate which slides into the base plate which has15mm rods . On the rods behind the base is a "Fotga" shoulder pad which just slips on the rods. The base is on sale now for about $130 and the Fotga for about $35.

http://www.shoot35.com/category-s/1818.htm
http://www.shoot35.com/category-s/1818.htm

I put another Giotto base plate underneath the Cine base plate to attach to the tripod heads. Flexibility:
- I can slide the camera off the rods for quick completely lightweight operation, or
- I can slide the whole rig with mattebox, FF and shoulderpad for bigger handheld work or to go on a slider or any other tripod that has the giotto receiver. If not going handheld I don't need the back rods & fotga pad at all.

For handheld the camera is still front heavy, so I add the monopod (also with a Giottos receiver on it)
- For quick and lightweight just pull of the camera and into the monopod
- For greater stability and/or FF /mattebox I added a 15mm rod adapter with a giottos plate so the whole rig will also slide onto the Monopod. More weight but no worse than any other big rig.

Pic FS7 rig on tripod WS.JPGPic CU FS7 rig Giottos on tripod.JPGPic FS7 lightest handheld w Giotto plate.JPG

Pic Full FS7 rig w monopod copy.jpg​Pic freestanding Rig cropped.jpg
(sorry I can't seem to turn those pics )
Its a little weird with 3 quick releases on top of each other and it ain't pretty or expensive looking, but It seems to be solid enough and its incredibly flexible. So far just an experiment and i'm getting lighter monopod.

Issues - The shoot 35 baseplate rides the camera a little high ( almost 105mm). They sell a rod height adapter which I may buy - raiser clamp:

http://www.shoot35.com/category-s/1824.htm
Instead though I lowered the shims on the cine base plate to get myself 10mm needed for FF. This interfered with the long rods in the base though, so I split into separate rods in front & back . Less secure but similar to many rigs.

By the way the Shoot 35 Pro Follow Focus is fantastic and very reasonable especially with their current sale (aprox $600). Absolutely 0 play (and damping is adjustable) , very simple hard stop system which is great for auto lenses that can turn freely ruining your marks, adjustable focus direction for Nikon. I replaced my far more expensive Arri MMF -1 for this and its way better. Wayne Kinney used to make the SGPro which was far and away the best of the 35mm adapters if anyone can remember that far back. He does good work and has a good matte box as well. ( I have no relationship with Shoot35 or Wayne BTW.)

http://www.shoot35.com/category-s/1821.htm

lenny

 
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Here's another small mod and then I'll shut up.

I was concerned that the rod holding the EVF and the mic holder would get in the way of my bag. In particular the mic holder seemed a little high and after breaking my F3 holder twice I wanted to protect it better this time. The trouble was that you need an Allen wrench to loosen or remove it. and those are so easy to lose or not have around when you want them. The hold down screw has 3mm threads so from J Winco on the web (great place for small screws etc) I bought a screw with a handle I can grasp and a washer needed to make the length correct. -Bingo - and its black too. Its a little small and hard to tighten but it does work:

Pic viewfinder screw on cam.JPGPic screws for VF bracket.JPG
 
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Many good ideas here. I too have used a similar system in the past with an HVX-200 (short Gitzo monopod going into a waist socket with a Manfrotto uni-ball with quick release plate). I still use that system from time to time with my C300 and am able to hold rock steady shots at the end of the lens. For the FS-7, I am hoping that using either a Canon 16-35 or 24-105 will not make the camera too front heavy, but still waiting on delivery to try it. Leaning towards either the Zacuto light rig or VCT mount version or even the Chrosziel shoulder pad and plate with short rods in the back for a couple of Lectrosonic 411-a receivers to help balance it without having to add the XDCA back and Dionic 90, but won't know what works best until I try it. Sony FS-7, F5, PMW-500 XDCAM, Canon C300 and Panasonic HD
 
Lenilenapi said:
Here's another small mod and then I'll shut up.

I was concerned that the rod holding the EVF and the mic holder would get in the way of my bag. In particular the mic holder seemed a little high and after breaking my F3 holder twice I wanted to protect it better this time. The trouble was that you need an Allen wrench to loosen or remove it. and those are so easy to lose or not have around when you want them. The hold down screw has 3mm threads so from J Winco on the web (great place for small screws etc) I bought a screw with a handle I can grasp and a washer needed to make the length correct. -Bingo - and its black too. Its a little small and hard to tighten but it does work:

View attachment 95059View attachment 95060
Click to expand...


Someone on this forum mentioned that they inverted the mic holder. This would seem to offer protection for the mount. They said it was easily inverted.
 
I inverted mine per another few users. The easiest way I've heard is to simply rotate the support rod. I took the hard route and undid the three screws that hold it together, snapped up the plastic lip and flipped it manually. But I didn't think that rod rotated. This has kept the top profile of the camera smaller and doesn't seem to get in the way too much.
 
morgan_moore said:
That alexa rig would be out of balance esp with a lens like that - just cos its arri doesnt mean it is right.
S
Click to expand...

It's an Amira and most times that camera is going to have full size batteries on the rear ( not the slim batt pictured ) as well as two Lectro wireless receivers or at least Zaxcom. Just about every camera I have every used ( and that's scores of camera models over 2 decades ) was front heavy to one extent or another. Very few were perfectly fore / aft balanced on the shoulder. It was only when the rear of the camera was carrying a full size Hytron 140, two Lectro receivers, and a microwave transmitter that a camera was truly balanced on my shoulder and did not want to pitch forward if I let go of it.

But that is discussion of 30-50lb camera rigs so let's return to the Fs7, to what we agree upon. The Fs7 is by design front heavy. It is designed to sit ahead of your shoulder. If you want better fore / aft balance on your shoulder the solution is to add counter weight on the rear. The solution is not to attempt to have the body centered over your shoulder as the Z-rig does. The Fs7 loupe isn't too long. It's designed to match the design of the camera- camera body ahead of your shoulder. The Fs7, like the Ex3, is so lightweight that having mass ahead of your shoulder isn't a big deal. Or rather, not as big of a deal as it would be for a camera rig weighing 30+ lbs.

The Fs7 is by design more of a "handheld" camera in the truest sense. In the way that still cameras are literally handheld. The Fs7 is designed to use your shoulder as a stability point more than a load-bearing point. Designed to that your shoulder is the third leg of the tripod formed by left hand, right hand, shoulder.

If you want to reduce the Fs7's front heavy nature a way to accomplish that is to add a shoulder plate, the extension back, and a big, fat 5.5 lb Hytron 140. Then ask your sound op to slap on a couple of Lectro receivers! All of this somewhat defeats the Fs7's light, compact, and nimble nature. It counters what some would argue is the Fs7's biggest strength over the F5. So you either learn to live with the Fs7 as designed ( mass fore of your shoulder, front heavy ) or you bastardize it into a poor-man's F5. :evil:
 
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