AG-DVX200 4K Large-Sensor Handheld Camcorder

You misunderstand me. Perhaps you grabbed the wrong quote, and you meant to quote Ron Evens . I love the DVX200. Our nonprofit has two on order, and I think we are number one in line at the dealers. Placed orders the day of the announcement. I was responding to someone who keeps interrupting different threads by implying that we are deficient and/or ignorant if we do not use light kits instead of wanting high ISO and high DR. Our team is not allowed to use additional lights. Only preexisting practicals.
And yet you preordered a camera on the day of announcement for the situations of filming that you describe? You hadn't even seen a single sample frame from the camera. Not only did you preorder 1, you ordered 2. Which means you spent almost $10000 on blind faith. But yet you're getting upset at people who are talking practically and logically.

You want high ISO and high DR? Why did you not buy the C300II or even the A7rII? Both with plenty of sample footage available. Have you ever filmed with the Gh4? Because that is what your footage will look like (minus the Vlog that they are microwaving) at a certain ISO with maybe a 10-15% better image (just based on buying any successor camera of a particular model with hopes of mind blowing theoretical advancement only to realize in the NLE the last one worked nearly as good as the new one).

Look at it this way. I'm gonna step into your shoes. Photography is mostly the act of problem solving. Your problem is that you need a device that acquires images in a zero footprint ever changing enviorment. Lot's of problems to solve and to solve on the spot in near realtime. All you get to take is your camera, a tripod, and maybe some other mounting solutions (slider, small jib, shoulder mount, whatever). You understand through that type of work that is contracted to you that sometimes the outdoor sun is a light source to other times a dimly lit theatre hall or city street is your environment. Kinda like saying to yourself, "I film in the desert at noon and then the dark side of the moon the rest of the day. I need a camera capable of it all". And yet, you preordered TWO DVX200's and think you are No. 1 in line, meaning that you didn't even sit and think about the camera for long before you hit the buy it now button? In YOUR own words, "Placed orders the day of announcement". Also in YOUR own words, "I LOVE the DVX200". You haven't even touched one and you love it? OK, theoretically I guess you can. The idea of it I guess. So much that you already ordered TWO.

So to me, it's not about and I'll quote, "implying that we are deficient and/or ignorant if we do not use light kits instead of wanting high ISO and high DR". I'm gonna imply that I question your business decisions and expectations of ordering TWO cameras placed on the day of announcement. By that logic, lets say you needed to fly to space and you were in the market for a rocket to get you there. Would you order a rocket that showed it's size but had no internals built into it, not a single test flight, zero evidence that it would carry a particular payload, much less even get off the ground. And then decide, "I need two of them" so my buddy can fly alongside with me? Today we're announcing a rocket. We've made good rockets before but this rocket is a little bit different. Here is what it will look like and here are the target specs we are soon to be manufacturing. "Well, how fast will it go" someone yells from the audience. "We're hoping really fast, but again, we haven't really built it yet or put it through testing". And you say. "Thats it, give me two of them" and back that up with "I love them".

Well, hopefully you will make it to your destination. It must be exciting thinking of what that ride "might" be like since your pre-order (on the first day none the less). But know that you've had time to think about your flight you're coming in here and questioning as to the rocket's ability of the engine not knowing if it will boost your payload to your intended goal. Hey, think about it though, you have two of them. You're not sure you're gonna fly a low orbit the first week or if you might be asked to fly to Mars. But hey, you have two of them. One for you and your buddy.

So I don't think anyone is calling you a lessor shooter. Maybe you're taking it that way. But I will go on record based on your quoted words of testimony and call you one hell of a batty astronaut if you look at my metaphor. But hey man, I rooting for your flight.

 
What about a stage production would demand 60 fps? You'd get longer record times, easier exposure through an effectively slower shutter speed, and, on the DVX, a wider angle of view shooting at 24p or (my favorite) 30p. I can't imagine that the fidelity of motion would suffer much at all -- many would probably even like the look.

Not trying to be critical, just curious.

- Greg

Dance in particular but honestly I do not like the look of the slower frame rates. I like the finished product to look as if the viewer was there in the audience, no effects.
 
A camera like the DVX200, on paper, is so much more than is necessary for the vast majority of paying gigs, that it does get silly to nit pick. ... This camera, or the A7s, BMPCC, or for that matter, a 5D MKII will wow the viewer if you do your job. ... You don't need an Alexa unless it's a job requirement. ... I think more and more it will, and should be, about cameras like this that allow the majority of shooters to focus more on their craft and less on the camera.

Exactly what I think. This could be a camera where no visual fault will distract your audience from the content. We're used to forgive "bad" footage if the content really engages you but we still demand a certain level of quality if you're shooting in controlled conditions. This camera could cover both areas.
 
And yet you preordered a camera on the day of announcement for the situations of filming that you describe? You hadn't even seen a single sample frame from the camera. Not only did you preorder 1, you ordered 2. Which means you spent almost $10000 on blind faith. But yet you're getting upset at people who are talking practically and logically.

You want high ISO and high DR? Why did you not buy the C300II or even the A7rII? Both with plenty of sample footage available. Have you ever filmed with the Gh4? Because that is what your footage will look like (minus the Vlog that they are microwaving) at a certain ISO with maybe a 10-15% better image (just based on buying any successor camera of a particular model with hopes of mind blowing theoretical advancement only to realize in the NLE the last one worked nearly as good as the new one).

Look at it this way. I'm gonna step into your shoes. Photography is mostly the act of problem solving. Your problem is that you need a device that acquires images in a zero footprint ever changing enviorment. Lot's of problems to solve and to solve on the spot in near realtime. All you get to take is your camera, a tripod, and maybe some other mounting solutions (slider, small jib, shoulder mount, whatever). You understand through that type of work that is contracted to you that sometimes the outdoor sun is a light source to other times a dimly lit theatre hall or city street is your environment. Kinda like saying to yourself, "I film in the desert at noon and then the dark side of the moon the rest of the day. I need a camera capable of it all". And yet, you preordered TWO DVX200's and think you are No. 1 in line, meaning that you didn't even sit and think about the camera for long before you hit the buy it now button? In YOUR own words, "Placed orders the day of announcement". Also in YOUR own words, "I LOVE the DVX200". You haven't even touched one and you love it? OK, theoretically I guess you can. The idea of it I guess. So much that you already ordered TWO.

So to me, it's not about and I'll quote, "implying that we are deficient and/or ignorant if we do not use light kits instead of wanting high ISO and high DR". I'm gonna imply that I question your business decisions and expectations of ordering TWO cameras placed on the day of announcement. By that logic, lets say you needed to fly to space and you were in the market for a rocket to get you there. Would you order a rocket that showed it's size but had no internals built into it, not a single test flight, zero evidence that it would carry a particular payload, much less even get off the ground. And then decide, "I need two of them" so my buddy can fly alongside with me? Today we're announcing a rocket. We've made good rockets before but this rocket is a little bit different. Here is what it will look like and here are the target specs we are soon to be manufacturing. "Well, how fast will it go" someone yells from the audience. "We're hoping really fast, but again, we haven't really built it yet or put it through testing". And you say. "Thats it, give me two of them" and back that up with "I love them".

Well, hopefully you will make it to your destination. It must be exciting thinking of what that ride "might" be like since your pre-order (on the first day none the less). But know that you've had time to think about your flight you're coming in here and questioning as to the rocket's ability of the engine not knowing if it will boost your payload to your intended goal. Hey, think about it though, you have two of them. You're not sure you're gonna fly a low orbit the first week or if you might be asked to fly to Mars. But hey, you have two of them. One for you and your buddy.

So I don't think anyone is calling you a lessor shooter. Maybe you're taking it that way. But I will go on record based on your quoted words of testimony and call you one hell of a batty astronaut if you look at my metaphor. But hey man, I rooting for your flight.


Wow, you spend so much time looking for something to criticize. And so long writing a long criticism. I don't know about you but I never prepay the cameras I order. The stores I deal with accept my orders with no, or trival, deposits. Then if the camera is dud they understand when I do not take delivery. That is my business sense. It may not be yours.
 
Not to fuel the flames but I can think of reasons why you'd want neither of the two cams suggested above. . .one will be like 4x cost of DVX once lenses are factored in, the other is a DSLR. BOOM.
 
But most of the DVX200 specs are GH4 specs ( minus a nice 13x zoom lens, a newer sensor, XLR inputs with good audio preamps, and probably a more robust electronics package ), so why would anybody buy a GH5 if it doesn't do anything better than the GH4 currently does ?
Well, a new 20 MPX sensor with 4K oversampling is a decent step-up from GH4. With a newer processor, you figure they'll throw in 4K 60P in too. Maybe 10-bit 4:2:2 internal. The rest depends on where they want to price it. GX8 is $1,200 already and neither it nor G7 existed when GH4 came out. Now, they'll have to squeeze GH5 above GX8 but below $1,700-$2,000. And the DVX200 must be a much fatter (higher GP percentage) piece than a body only camera. If it were up to me, I'd risk pricing it at $2,000 with an improved performance and features, assuming that a fixed lens camera is a different beast entirely but corporate politics often result in strange decisions.
 
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Well, a new 20 MPX sensor with 4K oversampling is a decent step-up from GH4.

Only if I can see it in the finished image. 20 Mpx sensor makes no difference to me if the DR isn't at least 1 F-stop better than the GH4.

With a newer processor, you figure they'll throw in 4K 60P in too.

Yes, I think it would be a logical upgrade if the processor can handle it. I also expect the slow-motion FPS to increase too given more processing power.

Maybe 10-bit 4:2:2 internal.

While I would love it if they did this, I think this is a prosumer feature that you're not going to get in a GHx camera.

The rest depends on where they want to price it.

I expect the GH5 will be the same price as the GH4 when it first came out and the GH4 will be moved down to replace the GH3, so we might see a $1,200 GH4 and a discontinued GH3. ( B&H currently has the GH3 on sale for $600 )
 
Only if I can see it in the finished image. 20 Mpx sensor makes no difference to me if the DR isn't at least 1 F-stop better than the GH4....
They'll need a BSI sensor to get a significant improvement in low-light performance. A7RII got that in a full frame camera and now it's at least on par with A7s, despite having a far superior pixel count (42 MPX vs. 12).

In terms of the DR, GH4 was rated by DxO to be at ~ 13 stops in a stills mode, so they could conceivably wring out a stop extra out of the same sensor. DVX200 declares 12 stops in V-Log, which should be achievable on GH5 as well. That would give 1-3 extra stops, depending on your tolerance for noise.

And, as far as the resolution goes, the 13.5 MPX oversampled 4K should be superior to the GH4's native 8.8 MPX sensor but you'd need a top monitor/big screen/projector to spot any difference. Once again, referring to A7RII, the oversampled s35 mode (~ 15 MPX) delivers more lines than a binned full frame version. Whether that is visible to a naked eye outside of the resolution chart is anyone's guess.
 
I am mostly interested in how it handles colours as it is over exposed, weather it goes that digital yellow look with over exposure??

Other than that I think it already looks super useful for all types of shooting.
The color science is not finished so I cannot say exactly how it will perform, but I can say this -- the menu options, the knee control, all that stuff works like the PX270 and HPX250, not like the AC160 and AF100. The HPX250 had a smooth transition to white rather than the chroma clipping yellow. So I would say it looks promising, but I cannot say for sure until I get a version where they declare that the color science is finished.
 
As everyone KEEPS saying, this is early TESTING. Wait till it is finished and released before you make up your mind.

Some guy hooked it to a Shogun and got a bunch of random nature shots using a baked-in scene file and not Vlog-l from a pre-release camera, then posted the un-color corrected footage to Youtube, which is streaming it in 4k at just under 20mb/s. There is nothing spectacular about it, but I'm not sure that's the camera's fault (or the shooter's). For what it is, it's neither underwhelming nor overwhelming. It does show good colors, a lot of sharpness that doesn't look unnatural, and shallow depth of field.

It would have been nice to have had access to the ProRes file, but I find nothing discouraging about the footage. And I don't understand comments like "I'd buy it for $3,000". I can't equip a new GH4 at current market prices for that much.
 
And I don't understand comments like "I'd buy it for $3,000".
+1

It's actually starting to piss me off!

Why even bother to say it?

The AC130 is only a little under $3000 and the AC160 is over $3600. The HC-X1000 hasn't even been under $3000 for very long, as if the DVX200 is going to be that low!
 
If Panasonic checks out this thread they will see the interest this camera is generating. But lets face it this is not a $5K camera with it's variable lens and most likely 4:2:0. Just try shooting a conference where you need to be zooming in and out a lot and you will see that the lens is not going to cut it. On the other hand if you look at the Sony RX10II it offers pretty much everything this camera does with a slightly smaller sensor in a small package. It features a fixed 2.8: 24-200mm lens. It has slow motion, great ISO, peaking, zebra, headset input, even a build in ND filter, for aonly $1300. Just add a zoom recorder and you get xlr inputs. I already own the Panasonic HMC80, it's a small sensor camera but great for the price. When you compare the DVX200 to other cameras in the market it is more of a $3500 camera and not a $5K. If it had a fixed aperture and 4:2:2 internally then that would make it a competitive camera worth investing $5K. This camera was on the top of my list, but if it's not 4:2:2 internally then I am definitely skipping as I already have several 4:2:0 cameras and don't need another.
 
...Just try shooting a conference where you need to be zooming in and out a lot and you will see that the lens is not going to cut it. On the other hand if you look at the Sony RX10II it offers pretty much everything this camera does with a slightly smaller sensor in a small package...

But it also has a 29 minute record limit or else it overheats. I'm not going to use a camera to record a conference if I'm limited to just 29 minutes per record.
 
The only ones that are close are the Panasonic HC-X1000 ( $2800 ), Sony FDR-AX1 ( $4500 ) and the Sony PXW-Z100 ( $5500 ) All have a similar ( or the same !!! ) 1/2.3 sensor but with a 20x zoom. Z100 has 4:2:2 10 bit recording etc with expensive XQD cards. FS7 is about $10000 with zoom lens for a much better camera but at what will be more than twice the cost. I think the quoted less than $5000 will be a reasonable price for the DVX200. If you only want HD that is different, then one could look at the Sony PXW-X70 with 4:2:2 recording etc for $2000. 1" sensor, clear image zoom that doubles the zoom range in the same way that the DVX200 does I expect. The difficult bit is UHD at 50/60P and full 4K. This requires a lot of processing power.
 
Just try shooting a conference where you need to be zooming in and out a lot and you will see that the lens is not going to cut it. On the other hand if you look at the Sony RX10II it offers pretty much everything this camera does with a slightly smaller sensor in a small package. It features a fixed 2.8: 24-200mm lens.

A 13x zoom is not going to cut it, but an 8x zoom will? Hmm.
 
I didn't say I would buy the Sony RX10 II to shoot a conference, but I did say that to shoot a conference you are better off with a fixed aperture lens.
 
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