Affordable, Secure DVCPRO100 Backup??

S

someday

Well-known member
At the beginning there was the tape....

Seriously, how the heck do you want to backup your P2 footage in order to be able to use it within 10 years?????

- DVD: have 2 years lifespan then they begin losing data: forget it

- HD: despite they are the less secure media, if you make your data redundand it's less likely that both HD will crash toghether so you have the most secure archive ever. But as video is so hungry for GB you will have to build huge storage setups, that will cost a fortune: Forget it

- TAPE: DVCPRO HD recorders cost at least 30k$: Forget it


Forget the archive idea and just imagine the average shooting situation:
Your P2 is full and you need to copy it's data to an HD then you throw it and lose all data.
The producer says: where is the footage? you say: which footage?? let's start over again shooting. He will shoot, but with a gun.
It's a nightmare. Serious productions need RELIABLE STORAGE!

Any ideas?
 
Last edited:
Where have you read the data DVDs have a two year life span?

I have some that are six years old and work just fine.

Other than magnetic, and optical, there is only tape based back up.

But a two year life span for DVD?

Does that mean our four year old DVD videos won't work anymore?
 
Hard disk is cheap and getting cheaper. I now have external disk that is just for this purpose. Just label it and put it back in the box it came in and set it on the shelf.

Oh, and because i'm lazy and don't want to go through all the files used in post, I just store it all.
 
Hard drives are NOT a long term solution.

Right now the only viable long term (30 years) is tape.

This is why my company will probably be buying the mxf-aware Quantum SDLT600a.

Not cheap, but its server-like reliability has gig-e andthe fact that it is mxf aware makes it a no brainer.

Hard drives are a good mid-term solution, but they are NOT a long term solution.

If you use them as such you will, eventually, get burned.

http://www.quantum.com/Products/TapeDrives/DLT/SDLT600A/Index.aspx
 
Matt,

You may want to call MGM and ask them about their Information Lifecycle Managment (ILM) strategy.

Whichever media you use, the current wisdom is to refresh both the media (because of deterioration) and the hardware (to avoid 8-track tape syndrome). For tape that is about every 5-7 years. Longer for DASD and WORM. ...and David has some info on DVD.

disclaimer...I'm not sure what MGM's ILM strategy is...but they do have one...
 
Last edited:
All three of the links are to the same article for you.

The article I cited by Larry Jordan deals with burnable DVDs and claims at least 20-30 years if top quality blanks are used.

Read Jordan's article. It doesn't deal with printed DVDs or CDs, but burnables ones.
 
there you go.

nothing like a good exchange of information.

I remember that great Nicholson line from "A Few Good Men" . . . You want the truth?? . . . . .

My five year old first generation DVD recordables still work great.

good luck anyway
 
I am currently using the SDLT 600A for long term storage on a couple of projects. One project has just passed 300 GB (24PN) ans the other which we just began is already 200 GB 30PN. The system works very well though the latest firmware update has created an issue with not being able to transfer directly from a connected P2 store to the SDLT . I've been working with Quantum Rich Media folks to track down that issue and hopefully that will be resolved soon.

I'm feeling pretty safe and secure in this tape back up environment not to mention 300 gb of material fits on one modest sized cartridge. File restores from the SDLT have been flawless and having a bit for bit copy of my originals lets me sleep a little easier.
 
coming from an IT and photography background - you are correct in your suspicions of DVD / CD's. I'm a little surprised that many others don't seem to be aware of the issues with storing data on 'standard' off the shelf CD/DVD's.

The issue is the amount of coating which manufacturers put on their disks. This coating is generally real thin, and degrades in sunlight, or over time. There are archival quality DVD's, and I think I remember hearing that DVD's are better than CD's in general. But there's no way I would use either for archive purposes.

My recommendation if you can't afford heavy duty tape (which is the best way, but most of us normal people can't afford to good tape systems) is that you go with external drives. Look at the likes of Sonata (I think they're called). They do external e-sata cases, and if you can't use external SATA, you can find firewire versions. These cages allow you to plug in up to 5 standard hard disks of your choice, and use them as if they were internal drives. Fill one up and simply flick a lever, and pull it out, and put another in - any drive you like. If you go with a SATA version, you can get a super fast 10,000 rpm disk and set it up as a scratch disk for your NLE to improve performance. Then you could set up a couple of other disks in a mirrored cluster, so your data is always safe. My whole setup with hard disks cost me just over £500.

Hope that helps,

Nick.
 
I don't have any resource, other than my own experience, to back this up, but I noticed that the DVD's that I've burned and put sticky labels on don't play reliably anymore compared to DVDs that I did not put labels on. I wonder if there has been any research to hold up this theory. These discs were TDK or Verbatim.
 
I think we've gone way beyond the original question (or was it just frustration at the cost)...but Google the following for a decent article for you industry techies:

"Archiving Movies in a Digital World"

That is a whitepaper from Sun. EMC has a viewpoint as well

Bottom line is that "Holographic" (optical media) is considered the future for long term storage. Tape is the current standard; however, it is not the best if you really need to access it often, and it is usually refreshed every few years due to the fear of deterioration. For pure cost and usability, DASD is now the most practical for low level budgets.

I'm not going to invest in tape because of the initial expense and inflexibility of use. DASD is just fine and it is easily usable for now and renewable in the future.

We all know that future technology development will obsolete everything we do today...media and hardware.

I say be flexible.
 
DAT 36/72 DVCPROHD storage solution?

DAT 36/72 DVCPROHD storage solution?

At the beginning there was the tape....

I have DAT 72 drive just thinking to make it run as a HD Storage :)

It uses a DAT tapes 36/72 Gb on each maybe it's not the best solution but cheaper and safer to store that a Hard drive... they can last up to 100 years... The drive and SCSI card is expensive and probably there is not DAT Drive for MAC... but this is just an idea.

http://comp-unlimited.co.uk/shop/dat-tape/dat72-36-72gb-tapes/

http://www.quantum.com/ServiceandSupport/SoftwareandDocumentationDownloads/DAT72Drives/Index.aspx
 
someday said:
- HD: despite they are the less secure media, if you make your data redundand it's less likely that both HD will crash toghether so you have the most secure archive ever. But as video is so hungry for GB you will have to build huge storage setups, that will cost a fortune: Forget it
Click to expand...

Cost a fortune? Hard drives are the cheapest form of long-term storage. And reliable.

Tape is not a long term solution. Years ago, it was sensible. But it's almost 2008. Times have changed. Technology has changed. Tape's achilles heal is quick obsolescene and huge expense. Now, it is even less reliable long-term.
If you use tape long enough, you will, eventually, get burned.
 
hatchmo said:
If you use tape long enough, you will, eventually, get burned.
Click to expand...
That's true for any technology, not just tape. Ideally you don't rely on a single backup copy and even technology -- who cares if the media is still good but you can't get the drive to work with your current system because interfaces have changed and/or there are no drivers for your OS?
 
David S. said:
Where have you read the data DVDs have a two year life span?

I have some that are six years old and work just fine.

Other than magnetic, and optical, there is only tape based back up.

But a two year life span for DVD?

Does that mean our four year old DVD videos won't work anymore?
Click to expand...

Hey David. I too have heard less than 2 years. I will try to dig up the article and post it. From what I have gathered discs have a significant lifespan in closed and controlled storage. A life span of less than 6 years if stored in a genric everyday setting, like an office and only this long if they are not used to access data. If I remember correctly, the 2 year life span is rate is if a disc is shelved and accessed from time to time.
It also depends on manufaturer and materials.

There is an issue with older DVD-Rs and the inks braking down at an accelerated rate from exposure.

still any number of years at $.30 a pop aint bad. You can just cycle out the archiving and make fresh copies every couple of years. Not to mention that something wonderful and affordable will probably be available before the first disk even starts to deteriorate.
 
well, i can only speak from experience. ive used cd backup for data for well over 10 years now and not a single one has gone bad. used DVDs for at least the last 5 years - same deal. and ive been shelving firewire hard drives since about 1999 and the only problem there was one typical lacie issue.

ive used DLT/AIT tape a few times over the years and had more than one tape lose data - or at least the ability to retrieve it via standard procedure.

just my experience.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top