AF100 / AF101 - initial report

Im really hoping to see usable video at 3200 or gasp 6400

Suddenly my GH1 kit lens becomes fast enough for almost anything. And my 20mm f/1.7 and Minolta 50 f/1.4 are like night vision.
 
powervideo said:
Barry, there's a different kind of strobing that is inherent to all the DLSR's I've shot with. It's not the strobing that I see with standard 25P shooting on my Varicam or SDX900. It's a weird "intraframe" strobe or stutter that happens when you pan the DSLR camera. I've seen it evident from the Canon 7D to the GH1. I suspect it is a CMOS or processing issue where there is just not enough DSP power to process the real time video; or it may just be a scanning speed issue with the CMOS itself.

Because of this, I like to keep the subject pretty static in the frame and avoid too much tilt/panning. Have you noticed the difference between these DSLR's and your HPX500 or HVX200? To me it's like night and day. It's not a deal breaker and I will be first in line for an AF100 regardless, but I hope the "intraframe" strobing effect of the GH1 is not duplicated here in the AF100.

Several of my DOP colleagues agree it is different from the strobing you see in broadcast 2/3" progressive scan cameras, but it is definitely there.
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Barry or anyone seeing this effect on DSLR's?
 
Stephen Mick said:
f4

And personally, I don't think it's worth the money. I had it, used it and sold it.
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The panasonic 7-14mm is my favorite m4/3rds lens. It's magical.

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Barry... Thanks so much for the info. I'm not thinking of selling my HMC150 in October and picking up two of these bad boys. I'm also excited about the option of renting lenses that I can't afford and having the flexibility to pick and choose what I'd want to buy...

I feel this will be as anxious a December as the HVX200 was way back. That was an awesome time and glad to be a part of this... I believe until the other cameras become available then this is the one taking everyone else's lunch...
 
Dino said:
Timur,

Wondering why you prefer the Schneider PL's over the Zeiss CP 1 or 2's? The CP 1's are faster in 50mm and 85mm focal lengths, T1.5 vs.T2.1 for the CP 2's, and faster than the Schneider's, I believe.

Also, if the AF100 only has 8-bit HD SDI output, it won't make full use of the 10-bit ProRes 422 codec. Maybe the nanoFlash is sufficient quality wise and more flexible due to its smaller form factor.
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The schneiders are matched better, interms of speed, front diameter and i t seems to me that the schneiders are built for cinema as opposed to still photography/motion.

I have not actually touched either set of lenses, so I'm still deciding on wich set I want. Its important that lenses match each other, not only optically, but mechanically and from a convenience standpoint when actually using them.

8bit -> proress 10bit422 is better than, avc hd. Period.
 
Barry_Green said:
Sure ticket to disappointment. Trade show floor footage has never been worth anything. And trade show floor footage from a 70% prototype -- what's the point? It won't look 1/10th as good as "Dispatch", so as soon as someone does what you ask, we'll have three months of shrieking and complaining.

With that said, I'm sure someone will do it. Counterproductive, but it'll happen.

I asked them to consider releasing the actor/play footage that they shot in Frankfurt, and if they release that, it'll at least be more representative of what you can get from a 70% prototype in more filmic-style conditions.
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Oh tradeshow footage is lousy, and obviously footage from a prototype isn't totally definitive. Buuuuut I still want to see it just to play around with it on a technical level. Would be nice to see some of the 1080/60p if that's enabled as well.
 
I think I still have tradeshow dvx100 footage on one of my old harddrives. Yep, from before it launched. lol
 
Barry, any chance they give us a 4:2:2 codec on the unfinished 30%? Pass this message to Jan and the Panasonic officials. After Canon-s new line of videocams, seems like a 4:2:0 codec in the price range should be a thing from the past... Even if the price went up from 6000 to 6500, I would pay for it!
 
SPZ said:
Barry, any chance they give us a 4:2:2 codec on the unfinished 30%? Pass this message to Jan and the Panasonic officials. After Canon-s new line of videocams, seems like a 4:2:0 codec in the price range should be a thing from the past... Even if the price went up from 6000 to 6500, I would pay for it!
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You could just record using the HDMI or SDI out?
 
NanoFlash, Ninja or the AJA Ki Pro MINI

So which would be your choice to go with the AF-100? They all seem to do pretty much the same thing.

I like the Ki Pro MINI myself. But the price of the ninja is pretty tempting. I just don't like the idea of a hard drive.
 
sorry to jump off topic here but maybe some can help clarify for me. with the hdsdi out recorders, do they have to support the resolution/framerate from the signal or just record whatever is there? for example the lower framerates for fast motion stuff would be recordable or not? also, does anyone know what the mbps would be to the prores formats and if that is a option to push it or lower it? thanks!
 
Oooofff... Jesus! I finally managed to reach the end of this thread! Lol... But it's only reasonable all this enthusiasm.

Like many others did here before, I have to express my grattitude for the untiring dedication that Barry displays for the tasks of sharing information and answering questions!..
I was eager either to find an answer to my doubts or to ask them myself... so, I finally read all replies and couldn't find my answer. I'm sorry if I missed it but, I really tried hard to find them.

A) This camera is expected to be launched to the market in December. But does this mean we may get a fair chance of getting our hands on it by december?... Or will the first cameras be pre-destined to specific customers, leaving the general public to wait for February or MArch untill they get a chance to buy one?

B) I have more or less understood the incredible potential this camera will have for providing a typical DSLR DOF in a Video Camcorder form factor and functionalities. However, is there a way for this camera to behave as a typical all purpose/deeper DOF camera? I mean, are there any specific lenses that will allow this camera to have a deeper DOF like in a EX-1 or a Canon XF305, for a less cinematic use? Or is it recommended not to rely on this camera for that line of applications?
I intend to buy 2 of these as soon as possible for a multi(bi)cam style of work... Will I need yet a XF305 for the shoot and run deeper DOF style of shooting (weddings, sports...), or will I be able to do that with this camera, at least with some specific lens(es)??...

C) Actually, this is the gear I was thinking in buyin before the end of the year:

* 2x AG-AF101 (living in Europe) + 2x NanoFlash
* 2x LUMIX G VARIO HD 14-140mm - All purpose/Standard Zoom: 700€ (1400€)
* 1x LUMIX G VARIO 7-14mm - Wide Angle Zoom: 850€ (Japan)
* 1x LUMIX G VARIO 45-200mm - Zoom Telephoto: 400€
* 1x LEICA DG MACRO-ELMARIT 45mm - Macro: 700€

* 1x Canon XF305
* SGBlade 35mm Adaptor
* 1x Zeiss Planar T* 1.4/50 ZF
* 1x Zeiss Distagon T* 2.8/21 f2.8 ZF
* 1x Zeiss Nikon Mount 1:2/100 ZF (Macro)

Any advice on this gear? Anything missing, anything overkill? I'm having the Lumix lenses for autofocus and the Zeiss both for quality and to be used both in the AF-101 and the XF305.

But... Will really the XF305 be needed? Or is the Panny able to replace it in the multipurpose/event line of work?

Thanks a million!

Miguel
 
SPZ said:
Barry, any chance they give us a 4:2:2 codec on the unfinished 30%? Pass this message to Jan and the Panasonic officials. After Canon-s new line of videocams, seems like a 4:2:0 codec in the price range should be a thing from the past... Even if the price went up from 6000 to 6500, I would pay for it!
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Pretty much the AVC-Intra/P2 argument. Yeah...I'll take 2!
 
Mikungfu said:
B) I have more or less understood the incredible potential this camera will have for providing a typical DSLR DOF in a Video Camcorder form factor and functionalities. However, is there a way for this camera to behave as a typical all purpose/deeper DOF camera? I mean, are there any specific lenses that will allow this camera to have a deeper DOF like in a EX-1 or a Canon XF305, for a less cinematic use? Or is it recommended not to rely on this camera for that line of applications?
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I think this is a good question. What's the trade-off in low-light performance when stopped way down when compared with a smaller sensor cam like the EX-1 wide open in the same light?
 
use wide angle lenses for deeper DOF and/or position the subject further away from the camera.

Stopping down a lens to say f22 means loosing up to 10 stops of light. You do the math.
 
Barry_Green said:
Yes.

I can't say what I was told, but I was told that it's better than the HPX370's. Well, let me hedge that -- I was told that either the LCD or the EVF was going to be better, but I don't remember which one. Either way, it should be pretty excellent. The days of the HVX200's LCD panel are finally completely behind us!
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Now if they could stick that on the 2700 I'd be a happy man.
 
Dino said:
Also, if the AF100 only has 8-bit HD SDI output, it won't make full use of the 10-bit ProRes 422 codec. Maybe the nanoFlash is sufficient quality wise and more flexible due to its smaller form factor.
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Dino, heres my very unscientific reason why I'd go that way. In shooting a lot of broll with the 5D, I have found that converting to 4444, which is rediculous overkill, that indeed I find it easier to push parts of it around in color, also even when my CC isnt that heavy, I find the end result doesnt introduce more rubbish to the moire and aliasing: Plus I have the machine speed and drive space that the whole thing isnt cumbersome, so why not? Therefor the higher the better for me. 10bit 4:2:2 as a start point is about where Id like to be in aquisition.

Also the the ki pro mini will also add two audio channels - add that to the AF100 and you have four total.

Im not sure why I dont find the AF100 ugly as many others have, but I dont. As long as it doesnt look like a dslr and balances pretty well Im happy.
 
The camera will be very impressive and functional dressed in rails, mattebox and ff. This boxy design is what we need for serious work.
 
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