There is no CS7, 8, or 9. The updates will not be cumulative but rather released on a rolling basis, so "5 versions" might mean the five most recent updates, which might go back less than a year.
Adobe moves to Creative Cloud, Cancels Creative Suite
- Thread starter awelgraven
- Start date
adkimery
Veteran
I know. I was continuing a hypothetical example another poster had started to clarify a point.
Scott Freestyle
Well-known member
There isn't an awful lot more adobe can do to improve the CS series.. That's why for a few years they have been buying up other software companies and bundling it with their suite.
The shareholders want a continued revenue stream without having the pressure of having to improve what is fundamentally a perfect software package.. So now they can sit back and you'll get what you are given and be happy with it.
The shareholders want a continued revenue stream without having the pressure of having to improve what is fundamentally a perfect software package.. So now they can sit back and you'll get what you are given and be happy with it.
adkimery
Veteran
For the print/design side of things you have a point, but for post production Pr, SpeedGrade, etc., have a lot of competition and Adobe as a market with lots of room for it to grow into.
Michael Schrengohst
Well-known member
You vill like the software we give you!! You still have one year left on your contract!!!
Your files are ours!!! Now shut up and edit. What was your credit card number again?
Hidef1080
Well-known member
Subscription uptake so far
Adobe said it's got an installed base of 8.4 million customers using CS suites and 4.4 million using point products. For the Creative Cloud subscriptions, the number is 479,000 for the end of the first quarter and Adobe projects an increase to 1.25 million by the end of 2013.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57...-adobes-creative-cloud-subscription-not-very/
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Keep in mind that there is only "pay to play" now so I'm sure the numbers will go up from 479,000 but that is not near 12 million plus.
Scott Freestyle
Well-known member
Exactly, I hope they get stung for this!!
Zephyrnoid
Veteran
As you read the following text, I urge readers to bear in mind that the very intent of the standalone computer systems introduced in the mid 1980's, was to empower the small independent end-user.
In 2001 I gave a lecture on the absurdity of software upgrades for pay and part of the lecture was a real and projected breakdown on the total lifetime cost of ownership of a set of software and hardware tools for a specific domain of enterprise. As I recall, the total lifetime (30years) cost of running single user software (4 task specific suites) in the domain of light multimedia was projected at close to $40,000 for software and a mind boggling $105,000 for hardware (computers and related drivers and cards but not cameras or printers).
The point of that lecture was to demonstrate that even while software companies distribute what amounts to unfinished 'beta' caliber wares, they still command top dollar and keep customers upgrading with the promise that their overpriced 'bloatware' will result in a viable ROI for the end user.
In truth, Only a small percentage of product improvements translate into visible increases in productivity and profit for the end-user (Moore's Law not withstanding), even as they grossly inflate profits for software and hardware companies, as well their share value.
So in 2013 we are confronted with a devious plot to get end-users to give up their software installation DVD's and downloaded firmware and SW updates and just run all their software from 'The Cloud'.
No doubt, distributed computing in the 90's was the Genesis of this model.
As I have stated ad-nauseum, 'The Cloud' is analogous to a magic carpet floating in the sky. Them that control the magic carpet, control the sky. One 'pull' of the carpet and the sky comes falling down. By this I mean that the software companies plan to make it impossible for end users to control their enterprises at all. This also means that once beholden to cloud domiciled enterprise models, there is no restriction to what software companies will charge for 'subscriptions' as well as updates. This will also create a new rift between those that can afford the subscriptions and those that cannot. A new class of technology worker will emerge that will nullify the great technological egalitarianism of the 90's. Meet the privileged technology worker with 'access'. Gone will be the level playing field so beneficial to our economy at the cusp of the New Millenium.
The model will be identical to the one that as developed by ISP and Cable providers for TV programming. Fail to pay your subscription fee and 'poof' you are disconnected.
Just imagine that for software that a small business depends on for survival!
Once you agree to be part of the 'Cloud' collective, you are doomed.
But there is some hope
My advice has been the same for 15 years.
Buy up all the stand- alone software that you can right now. If that is CS6+latest updates for Visual Designers. Grab them, Grab all the compliant workstations that you can, fill them up with all the RAM and storage that you can. Buy extra parts and run these computers entirely OFFLINE.
That way Adobe can't 'zap' your software remotely.
Do this for all your software needs because eventually, more companies will try to force the cloud-only model on their customers.
This is the beginning, not of a 'revolution' to benefit the end user, but rather, a war between the end user and the Software Cos.
Decide if you want to win or if you want the software giants to own you, 'lock stock and barrel' as we used to say.
The end-user is entitled to minimize outlays for 'tools of the trade' so as to maximize profitability.
This is good business sense.
The hegemony that the computer industry has had over the tools can be halted with resistance from the end-user community. An organized effort should be mounted to counter what is a clear effort to turn what has been a relatively level playing field into to one that only those with deep pockets can play on.
No doubt there are those that have more money than brains and are are willing to prove it.
Bless them as they are the backbone of our consumer-centric economy.
But unless you are a member of this elite community, you'd better protect yourselves.
In 2001 I gave a lecture on the absurdity of software upgrades for pay and part of the lecture was a real and projected breakdown on the total lifetime cost of ownership of a set of software and hardware tools for a specific domain of enterprise. As I recall, the total lifetime (30years) cost of running single user software (4 task specific suites) in the domain of light multimedia was projected at close to $40,000 for software and a mind boggling $105,000 for hardware (computers and related drivers and cards but not cameras or printers).
The point of that lecture was to demonstrate that even while software companies distribute what amounts to unfinished 'beta' caliber wares, they still command top dollar and keep customers upgrading with the promise that their overpriced 'bloatware' will result in a viable ROI for the end user.
In truth, Only a small percentage of product improvements translate into visible increases in productivity and profit for the end-user (Moore's Law not withstanding), even as they grossly inflate profits for software and hardware companies, as well their share value.
So in 2013 we are confronted with a devious plot to get end-users to give up their software installation DVD's and downloaded firmware and SW updates and just run all their software from 'The Cloud'.
No doubt, distributed computing in the 90's was the Genesis of this model.
As I have stated ad-nauseum, 'The Cloud' is analogous to a magic carpet floating in the sky. Them that control the magic carpet, control the sky. One 'pull' of the carpet and the sky comes falling down. By this I mean that the software companies plan to make it impossible for end users to control their enterprises at all. This also means that once beholden to cloud domiciled enterprise models, there is no restriction to what software companies will charge for 'subscriptions' as well as updates. This will also create a new rift between those that can afford the subscriptions and those that cannot. A new class of technology worker will emerge that will nullify the great technological egalitarianism of the 90's. Meet the privileged technology worker with 'access'. Gone will be the level playing field so beneficial to our economy at the cusp of the New Millenium.
The model will be identical to the one that as developed by ISP and Cable providers for TV programming. Fail to pay your subscription fee and 'poof' you are disconnected.
Just imagine that for software that a small business depends on for survival!
Once you agree to be part of the 'Cloud' collective, you are doomed.
But there is some hope
My advice has been the same for 15 years.
Buy up all the stand- alone software that you can right now. If that is CS6+latest updates for Visual Designers. Grab them, Grab all the compliant workstations that you can, fill them up with all the RAM and storage that you can. Buy extra parts and run these computers entirely OFFLINE.
That way Adobe can't 'zap' your software remotely.
Do this for all your software needs because eventually, more companies will try to force the cloud-only model on their customers.
This is the beginning, not of a 'revolution' to benefit the end user, but rather, a war between the end user and the Software Cos.
Decide if you want to win or if you want the software giants to own you, 'lock stock and barrel' as we used to say.
The end-user is entitled to minimize outlays for 'tools of the trade' so as to maximize profitability.
This is good business sense.
The hegemony that the computer industry has had over the tools can be halted with resistance from the end-user community. An organized effort should be mounted to counter what is a clear effort to turn what has been a relatively level playing field into to one that only those with deep pockets can play on.
No doubt there are those that have more money than brains and are are willing to prove it.
Bless them as they are the backbone of our consumer-centric economy.
But unless you are a member of this elite community, you'd better protect yourselves.
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keylight
Veteran
Jason Adams
Section Moderator
I have had creative cloud since it was introduced and it has been positive for me.. 40 bucks a month instead of the 1500 I paid for CS5 Is great. I use Avid as my Primary editor and it costs me around 300-500 dollars a year in upgrades. Also I use Sorenson which costs 200-400 a year in upgrades. I will gladly pay 600 bucks a year for new features and all the apps. Also if I ever stop using Adobe products I can get a single month for 74 bucks. I would hope your billable hours on revisions are more the 74 bucks an hour. I understand the outrage of the principal of being forced to do something, but the bottom line is economically it is not a bad deal. And they have a monopoly. You can say your going to switch all you want. The Ad agencies I do work for are already cloud. What are you going to do when they send you that Photoshop file and your open source replacement doesn't read the new layer styles. It is not a bad financial deal it is just that they are taking choice away. I believe this is the model all software will follow. In 10 years you will be leasing your OS.
Wesley Byram
Well-known member
That's the bait. The switch will come later.
Hopefully, enough people will start migrating away from Photoshop now before this becomes an issue.
Edit (or at least, everyone will keep their pre-cloud copies of Photoshop around, if they MUST use Photoshop)
...and this must be vigorously resisted.
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keylight
Veteran
It's really great to hear that for you, this is a good deal. Economically for MANY others it is a very bad deal.
I know, what's $1230 over 6 years, right? It's only $205/year.
Now consider that MOST people here (not you) and MANY people in general, bought a suite back around CS, CS2, or CS3 (CS3 was a HUGE entry point for many). Now compare:
A difference of $2355, or $393/year. Chump change for some, not for others.
But I think you must know that the price isn't the main problem many people have. It IS a problem, but not the big one. This is:
Forget open source software not being able to read Photoshop files. What about when Photoshop CS6 can't read Photoshop CC in 3 years? Why then you start paying Adobe.
(The other big problem is that selling upgrades is GREAT motivation to innovate - need new features to get people to upgrade. Selling a subscription that your customers literally can't live without because you're a monopoly and have no real competition, is an incentive to sit on your ass and save money by NOT innovating.)
Jason Adams
Section Moderator
This I agree with you here. The worst thing that ever happened to Avid was being #1. Appreciate your insight on this Keylight.
I would be very confident to say that the vast majority here do not make $75+ per hour for editing.
Liam Hall
Veteran
I think the reverse is true. People want their upgrades for free these days, whether it's their phone or their digital creation software. It's incumbent on Adobe to continually update and innovate each product line and to bring out entirely new products and add them to the creative Cloud to maintain the appeal of the service. In the last couple of years they've shown that they are up to the task.
I agree. To professionals the CC is a no brainer. I can see the issue for hobbyists though.
adkimery
Veteran
I think your numbers for perpetual license are low Keylight. I assume you are basing this off one of the Premium suites (like Production Premium) which are $1900. Adobe said in '11 that they were moving to an annual upgrade cycle so it will be $375 a year to keep current or $750 if you skip a year. If you skip two years/versions you are paying full retail.
And Avid became complacent w/o the benefit of having a subscription plan. :tongue: $600/yr, IMO, isn't a lock in price if Adobe does nothing but sit on its thumbs. Avid's used to easily cost $75-100k per seat and if those customers managed to shed Avid for FCP then I think people paying $600/yr could dump Adobe that much faster (even if they'd been on the CC plan for a few years). Of course I'm saying this from an editing/post perspective where Adobe isn't very strong and has lots of competition which isn't the case on the print/publishing side fo things
-Andrew
The Irish TRex
Well-known member
on the bright side...via an Adobe staff member in their forum (where some are going nuts about this switch as well):
"The app will try to connect once a month. If it can't it will continue to try periodically for 99 days (soon to be 180). The app will have to be online sometime over that 99 day period in order to validate the license."
That's nice. Shoring up the "what if I go away for an extended trip" issue. Now as for the forcing you to continue to pay if you want to use, yeah it sucks that it's not just an option (even if the boxed set was like triple the normal price). What if they offered the old boxed version AFTER a new full version was released...hmmm, interesting. Doubt it, but interesting nonetheless.
Right now I'm just thankful that I don't have to pay $600 to upgrade considering I would've bought CS6 for $600 6 months ago and now I get the next version on June 17th and I've only spent $120 thus far. Why so little? I'm married to a teacher
Nice discount.
"The app will try to connect once a month. If it can't it will continue to try periodically for 99 days (soon to be 180). The app will have to be online sometime over that 99 day period in order to validate the license."
That's nice. Shoring up the "what if I go away for an extended trip" issue. Now as for the forcing you to continue to pay if you want to use, yeah it sucks that it's not just an option (even if the boxed set was like triple the normal price). What if they offered the old boxed version AFTER a new full version was released...hmmm, interesting. Doubt it, but interesting nonetheless.
Right now I'm just thankful that I don't have to pay $600 to upgrade considering I would've bought CS6 for $600 6 months ago and now I get the next version on June 17th and I've only spent $120 thus far. Why so little? I'm married to a teacher
Nice discount.alaskacameradude
Veteran
Some of the reasoning here is just....I am going to be extremely nice and call it silly.
Some people pay more for coffee or pet insurance in a month than for Creative Cloud so
it can't be that bad? Well a guy two subdivisions down from me spent 30 G's gambling
...big freakin deal. I don't control how others fritter away their money. I DO control
how I spend mine.....and I refuse to give up that control by buying into a subscription
based system. I run a video production business and I don't appreciate this move by
Adobe and so will take my business elsewhere. And if you think it is only hobbyists
who are noticing and complaining, you are wrong. For the last week, I have been working
location scouting for a production company that produces some very big name shows on TV
(I am under NDA so don't ask who). They have several other big (and small) production
companies working with them and we were all talking on Tuesday this week. Quite a few
of these companies had switched from FCP 7 to CS6 and as we talked about the
switch to total Creative Cloud they were not happy, I'd say quite upset would be an
understatement.
Look, if it works for you, great, awesome. But please quit trying to
convince me that I'm just stupid for not liking it. The world is full of diverse
people who are all different, thank goodness or it would be a boring place.
So I can't figure out who thought a 'one size fits all' approach was a good idea.
Some people pay more for coffee or pet insurance in a month than for Creative Cloud so
it can't be that bad? Well a guy two subdivisions down from me spent 30 G's gambling
...big freakin deal. I don't control how others fritter away their money. I DO control
how I spend mine.....and I refuse to give up that control by buying into a subscription
based system. I run a video production business and I don't appreciate this move by
Adobe and so will take my business elsewhere. And if you think it is only hobbyists
who are noticing and complaining, you are wrong. For the last week, I have been working
location scouting for a production company that produces some very big name shows on TV
(I am under NDA so don't ask who). They have several other big (and small) production
companies working with them and we were all talking on Tuesday this week. Quite a few
of these companies had switched from FCP 7 to CS6 and as we talked about the
switch to total Creative Cloud they were not happy, I'd say quite upset would be an
understatement.
Look, if it works for you, great, awesome. But please quit trying to
convince me that I'm just stupid for not liking it. The world is full of diverse
people who are all different, thank goodness or it would be a boring place.
So I can't figure out who thought a 'one size fits all' approach was a good idea.
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alaskacameradude
Veteran
Except for the small point that for the last couple years, Adobe had an incentive to update and
innovate each product line.....to convince us to shell out the upgrade money. Only now are
they going exclusively to the Cloud so we will have to wait awhile to see how they do.
I know, the argument will be that they have to continue to update and innovate or people
will cancel their membership....but I don't see cell phone and cable companies doing a lot of
innovation to keep their subscribers happy. It becomes just a service you pay for, not a lot
that happens to improve the service.
Liam Hall
Veteran
I must disagree. The pace of change in the communications and broadcast industries has been staggering in the last twenty years. And the innovation will continue.
Quick question for you, Alaskacameradude...
Do you use post-production software professionally? Do you charge for using that software?
BTW no one is calling you silly for not wanting to subscribe to Adobe.