A7s sample footage

[cyork]

Cpc, sounds about right to me. Cine4 is just cine3 with more contrast in the highs and lows. From a purely aesthetic standpoint, I like Cine 3 coming out of the camera quite a bit paired with cinema or pro, depending on how you setup your saturation. I'll never have time or the know how to measure all of these things scientifically. I'll let those of you that have those inclinations take that on All I can say is that the overall image is ready to shoot in a way that the fs100/700 were not. Something was just gross with the stock image out of those cameras.

 

[squig]

Yes, but s-log 2 stops over is exactly two stops less DR in practice because infinite shadow detail is useless. (99% of the time I am struggling to hide stuff in the shadows.)

Imo, the trade off with s-log2 overexposure is simple: less noise for less DR.

It's the other way around for me, I want to show stuff in the shadows (I tend to shoot the darkness)

 

[squig]

Squig, just curious for your opinion as I have been following your thread since before the A7s launch. When the specs came out at NAB I think we can all agree it was, perceivably, one of the best buys in a long time. Now that you own one...if you had all the information about the camera at its launch...it's oddities, and post production workflow that is required to make an acceptable image (especially when compared to the ease of use of their camera systems).... Would you have still purchased this camera going into it knowing what the reality is like.

I am one of the fellows who decided not to jump on board, but am curious if you think the headaches and quirkiness is worth it. I haven't stopped considering it for a possible tool in the bag and would love to know your honest overall opinion. Thanks man.

Well so far I'm not regretting the decision to get it (except for the fact that it's taking a lot of time to test it & it's putting my pre-production behind schedule). There's the issues everyone's aware of plus I came across something yesterday, it looks like CA, mostly in prores recording, it's very minimal but it's there, barely noticeable in the XAVC S files. The XAVC S is really solid on locked down shots (haven't tested movement yet).

It is a bit scary going back to 8bit, you get a bit lazy with WB & exposure shooting raw but I've got a colormeter which helps. Having said that though I have been way off with WB & was able to recover in post, but if you blow your highlights that's it, you do have about 2 stops to play with though.

I'll post some more 5D raw vs A7s stuff tomorrow, once graded the 5D raw is a tad sharper but the A7s has less noise & more definition in the shadows (that shot I posted is 20,000 ISO & there's no noise on little humans face, just some grain I added). Jury is still out on colour, gotta do some more tests.

What I can say for sure is the A7s blows every DSLR away bar the MK3 raw & it's a close race between the two (one of them will be the A cam on my feature). APS-C mode looks good so I think I'll ditch full frame to avoid the rolling shutter, the APS-C FOV is more filmic anyway, APS-C is about a stop noisier but you open up the aperture on APS-C to match full frame DOF so it evens out. 60p 1080p in APS-C mode is solid too which is something I really need.

No doubt the A7s is a serious filmmaking tool, but you do have the option of not shooting S-Log for a typical 10 stop video look too if you so desire. If the 5D didn't shoot raw it would be a no brainer.

 

[cyork]

I'd think the A7s has more than 10 stops range outside of Slog2. Looks like 11.5-12 to me if you shoot full range and recover. We know slog2 is about 14. The 5d mark iii is 11-ish so I think "video look" is probably a bit harsh considering the comparison. We all know there is more to what makes a filmic look than DR. Lighting, grade, grain...

 

[SammyD]

pp7, +4 Sat, -5 Detail, 40000 iso, Straight from camera to R11, applied 3D LUT from filmconvert Sony F55 SLOG2-SGamut

Same thing but first used Neat Video in Premiere CC then to R11 and same 3D LUT

this one I used filmconvert and neat video with Premiere brought it into R11 just to grad the still nothing done in R11, I didn't like this one it looked like plastic when played.

 

[cyork]

SammyD, I'm just looking on my phone here but that first shot looks great. Somewhere between the first and second would be nice, too.

 

[cpc]

Cpc, sounds about right to me. Cine4 is just cine3 with more contrast in the highs and lows. From a purely aesthetic standpoint, I like Cine 3 coming out of the camera quite a bit paired with cinema or pro, depending on how you setup your saturation. I'll never have time or the know how to measure all of these things scientifically. I'll let those of you that have those inclinations take that on All I can say is that the overall image is ready to shoot in a way that the fs100/700 were not. Something was just gross with the stock image out of those cameras.

I have an a7s on the way, so I'll certainly be playing with the curves. Will take some 10-15 days to arrive though, so others will probably compare them before that.

It's the other way around for me, I want to show stuff in the shadows (I tend to shoot the darkness)

This could be a reason to use s-log + 2 instead, yes. But still, some 8.5-9 stops under mid-grey? That's excessive.

Well so far I'm not regretting the decision to get it (except for the fact that it's taking a lot of time to test it & it's putting my pre-production behind schedule). There's the issues everyone's aware of plus I came across something yesterday, it looks like CA, mostly in prores recording, it's very minimal but it's there, barely noticeable in the XAVC S files. The XAVC S is really solid on locked down shots (haven't tested movement yet).

It is a bit scary going back to 8bit, you get a bit lazy with WB & exposure shooting raw but I've got a colormeter which helps. Having said that though I have been way off with WB & was able to recover in post, but if you blow your highlights that's it, you do have about 2 stops to play with though.

I'll post some more 5D raw vs A7s stuff tomorrow, once graded the 5D raw is a tad sharper but the A7s has less noise & more definition in the shadows (that shot I posted is 20,000 ISO & there's no noise on little humans face, just some grain I added). Jury is still out on colour, gotta do some more tests.

What I can say for sure is the A7s blows every DSLR away bar the MK3 raw & it's a close race between the two (one of them will be the A cam on my feature). APS-C mode looks good so I think I'll ditch full frame to avoid the rolling shutter, the APS-C FOV is more filmic anyway, APS-C is about a stop noisier but you open up the aperture on APS-C to match full frame DOF so it evens out. 60p 1080p in APS-C mode is solid too which is something I really need.

No doubt the A7s is a serious filmmaking tool, but you do have the option of not shooting S-Log for a typical 10 stop video look too if you so desire. If the 5D didn't shoot raw it would be a no brainer.

Curious why didn't you go with an used F3? Not much more expensive; 12.5 stops s-log; 10-bit 4:4:4 (and you already have a recorder, as I understand); various goodies: monitoring LUTs, xlr, etc.

edit:
@SammyD: I think these will look better if you pull back on NV sliders a bit.

 

[squig]

pp7, +4 Sat, -5 Detail, 40000 iso, Straight from camera to R11, applied 3D LUT from filmconvert Sony F55 SLOG2-SGamut
Same thing but first used Neat Video in Premiere CC then to R11 and same 3D LUT
this one I used filmconvert and neat video with Premiere brought it into R11 just to grad the still nothing done in R11, I didn't like this one it looked like plastic when played.

I like the 1st one, more organic. How did you expose that one?

 

[Guest]

If the 5D didn't shoot raw it would be a no brainer.

I think this is where some of the recent cameras fall into place. If the 53 didn't have raw….

…the GH4 would be a no brainer
…the A7s would be a no brainer
…the 1DC would be a no brainer
…etc

Still the 1DC is my fave of the bunch (sans the price, and if it had raw?) just for the grab and go feel with APS-H wide screen 4k in camera, but the A7s and GH4 are pocketable (sometimes), and do compressed video that is pretty good at covering the bases. 8bit gets stretched on the 1DC, yet gets away with it. I am not terribly interested in another bang for buck camera, but pocket-ability is very attractive. So, something like the A7s will have a place along side larger ergo forms like 1DC/C300/F55/dragon/Amira. But I am very surprised the industry is not wanting some more small pro cams?!! Sony and Canon should be releasing a few more of these over price cine cameras for the pro market. A 10bit A7s (lets call it A7c) for $15? sure, why not? Would be better than other small cameras.

But, yeah, I have been shopping for bang for buck cameras since 2003, starting with the DVC30, and it has been the same story ever since. 8bit. Technology and storage has advanced tremendously, cameras have leap frogged, and yet still no raw or 10bit in consumer video. Well, at least give us a $15,000 version one. I like the form factor.

 

[Guest]

But I may have to go with an A7s, as I can't get used to the iPhone.

 

[squig]

Curious why didn't you go with an used F3? Not much more expensive; 12.5 stops s-log; 10-bit 4:4:4 (and you already have a recorder, as I understand); various goodies: monitoring LUTs, xlr, etc.

Too big and clunky for my liking. Once you start adding the extra cost of support gear it's not worth it. For my needs I think the A7s will work a lot better (or the MK3 raw).

 

[Guest]

Too big and clunky for my liking. Once you start adding the extra cost of support gear it's not worth it. For my needs I think the A7s will work a lot better (or the MK3 raw).

True true. While I like the f3 form more than I thought I would, I still prefer the smaller cameras.

 

[squig]

But I may have to go with an A7s, as I can't get used to the iPhone.

You'd be left with a pocket full of change too.

Sure 10bits are better but the 8bit holds up pretty well against the 14bit 5D raw, except when you screw up, but then that's not really the cameras fault is it.

 

[squig]

True true. While I like the f3 form more than I thought I would, I still prefer the smaller cameras.

I had a good laugh at film school when I discovered my 5D MK2 was smaller than the v-mount batteries on all the cameras there and produced a better picture.

 

[SammyD]

SammyD, I'm just looking on my phone here but that first shot looks great. Somewhere between the first and second would be nice, too.

Thanks, yea I think so too, maybe more towards the first one though.

edit: @SammyD: I think these will look better if you pull back on NV sliders a bit.

Yea I think so as well, very new to it.

I like the 1st one, more organic. How did you expose that one?

I agree, when played it looked more organic for sure. I'm thinking neat video really took away the organic from the other two. ETTR 1.3 EV. The only light was from the window, 7am light, the sun was behind the building, the shades were closed and the curtain was open just a bit.

 

[Guest]

...except when you screw up, but then that's not really the cameras fault is it.

haha, absolutely!

 

[cpc]

Too big and clunky for my liking. Once you start adding the extra cost of support gear it's not worth it. For my needs I think the A7s will work a lot better (or the MK3 raw).

I love small size but for something as important as a feature I'd probably bet on image quality. I think in this price segment the tip currently goes to f3 and kinemini4k (based on samples) in terms of gradablility. But yeah, I get where you are coming from.

Yea I think so as well, very new to it.

I rarelly go over 15% on the luminance slider. Also, leaving some color in the noise makes it look better, imo (say, 85% on the chrominance sliders).

 

[Guest]

I had a good laugh at film school when I discovered my 5D MK2 was smaller than the v-mount batteries on all the cameras there and produced a better picture.

When I found out a small AntonB (Hytron 50?) could power the 60D for 2days, and look better, and be more ergonomic for my needs at the time, I was in heaven. Crazy how tech has just surpassed what video companies were doing, just because tech was moving faster.

Man, while i still may enjoy a pocketable image machine like the A7s, gosh, I hate the idea of spending money on something with such glaringly bad control layouts. Cameras are getting to the point that I can sacrifice IQ for function because all of them have passable IQ… unless the A7s is that much better.

Now, if I could just lose my love affair with APS-H crop (large formats may, sadly be my next affair).

 

[cyork]

Where are you finding F3's for $2500? I'm SOLD, lol

 

[pask74]

Thanks for keeping on sharing your thoughts and experience with the A7s.
I've been trying to find a good replacement for my hacked GH2, whose aesthetic I like but lacks DR and gets atrocious pretty quickly in low light.
What I've seen from the A7s so far is pretty convincing, except Pampuri's skin tones here: http://vimeo.com/m/101579567
(jump to 11:50)
Andrew Reid seems to struggle to expose properly in S-log2 - what do you guys think?