7d or wait for Sony? Are they joining the game on 10/20/09?

Sorry... it's a bit like Dr Who, I was transported from my blog into the middle of this discussion I did not realise it was a DSLR discussion.
 
mhood said:
Did you just cross over into the negative bashing zone? Should you be posting this on the HMC Forum? :-)
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I've been working for a couple of days on an aliasing article. The more time I spend in it, the more I realize just how awful the video from these DSLRs actually is.

They are priced appropriately.
 
Yet they look so good. I went ahead and paid for my 7D...should be here tomorrow. Like a moth to a flame.
 
HDWarrior said:
DSLRs are a phase and a pain in the butt to edit, sound is poor the only positive part of a DSLR is the picture and the cost. If you intend making indie type films for uTube with some music the DSLR is fine but for serious work you can't yet beat a decent camcorder. I also own a 5DMk11 and have tinkered with it's HD capabilities but if you gave me a choice between a DSLR or a Camcorder...the camcorder wins hands down.
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Agreed, it seems like a lot of compromises are being tolerated/exchange for an incredible image.

However, I'm not sure they're a 'phase' but they certainly are in a primitive stage of evolution. I am tempted to believe that Canon are taking the Apple line of business which is 'if someone is going to canabalise our sales it had better be us' but I think separating the lenses from the body is the actual big revolution for entry level HD prosumer kit - if Canon don't do that for the XH A1 replacement they've seriously missed the opportunity.
 
Lenses are tied to the size of the sensor, so if you are going to separate the lenses from the body you will have to make a body with appropriate sensors to capitalize on existing lenses. I don't think Canon is going to make the mistake of having to start a whole new line of interchangable lenses.
 
HDWarrior said:
DSLRs are a phase and a pain in the butt to edit, sound is poor the only positive part of a DSLR is the picture and the cost. If you intend making indie type films for uTube with some music the DSLR is fine but for serious work you can't yet beat a decent camcorder. I also own a 5DMk11 and have tinkered with it's HD capabilities but if you gave me a choice between a DSLR or a Camcorder...the camcorder wins hands down.
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Technical me says: This guy's spot on.

Audience and producer me says: you're out of your mind.

I say, and I keep saying, that I won't do any MAJOR work on the 7D. And by major I mean like a feature film. But I would certainly whip these two cameras out on every other shoot that didn't require a lot of post tweaking.

And, then, on the other hand I know for a fact the 7D is a Feature Film worthy camera. Because there were people saying "No way I would use a 35mm adapter and Video Camera for a feature BLAH BLIPPITY BLOOP" and, hey, you only need to roll to your local Best Buy and pick up THE SIGNAL to see what it's like to walk instead of talk.
 
Kholi said:
Technical me says: This guy's spot on.

Audience and producer me says: you're out of your mind.

I say, and I keep saying, that I won't do any MAJOR work on the 7D. And by major I mean like a feature film. But I would certainly whip these two cameras out on every other shoot that didn't require a lot of post tweaking.

And, then, on the other hand I know for a fact the 7D is a Feature Film worthy camera. Because there were people saying "No way I would use a 35mm adapter and Video Camera for a feature BLAH BLIPPITY BLOOP" and, hey, you only need to roll to your local Best Buy and pick up THE SIGNAL to see what it's like to walk instead of talk.
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I sat here thinking about responding to many of these negative, measurebating (as Chris Hurd puts it), pixel peeping threads that seems to say "you can't"..."this sucks"..."it will never be..." etc and I just couldn't find the right words. But this post kind of sums up what I was thinking. They say history has a tendency of repeating itself. Didn't we all go through this phaze with DV/HDV? I don't care what new format surfaces we WILL continue to find its weaknesses. But there will always be someone to exploit their strengths. I have not obtained this cam as yet but I'm luvin what I see through others who don't care about specs and also those who don't listen to the "it will never be good enough for...(fill in the blank).

Just before I read your post I was literally thinking of "28 Days Later." How did that anomaly happen? regardless,...it happened...and people enjoyed it. As soft as it might of looked on the "Big Screen" (I never noticed back then) we are at a point where resolution is probably 8 times more (just guessing here) ....so that's not an issue. Color is superb...(even with 4:2:0)... Personally I think we are at a point where it doesn't matter if camera "A's" resolution is better than camera "B" because these cams today (including the "weak" resolving ones) are more than enough to fool people into thinking that they are high end gear especially when handled correctly. Nothing wrong with a little smoke and mirrors. All this measurebating is good to a point (to let us know their strengths and weaknesses) but like I mentioned....they are ALL good enough to give a professional presentation when in the right hands.
 
Also. in regards to "28 Days Later" I think I know why it never occurred to me that the image was soft. It's because they were probably consistent in using the same format. Of course the end was film....but I think that part stuck out as being different. It was at that point you had something to compare the DV image to. But still....the average Joe was clueless.
 
Lets get real ... DSLRs are being championed by the same man who championed the film adapter before the DSLR ... Mr Bloom is a great ambassador when it comes to the film look but as a video producer I have to weigh up what suits my customer. At this point in time the DSLR is in it's infancy and when you take on board the vast difference in weight between a DSLR and an EX-3 with a film adapter and "sore back problems" are you surprised Mr Bloom is embracing the DSLR.
Remember Phil is one in a million and his ability to get some great footage out of a DSLR is more a testimony to him as a Director of Photography. The DSLR will either get more Video/audio enriched or it will die like Betamax, HDDVD...etc.
I predict that Canon will come out with a solid state camcorder that will take 35mm lenses and have the same chip as the 5D Mk11 then you will see the demise of the DSLR but the positive side will be that your Canon lenses will fit the new Film Like camcorder.
 
HDWarrior said:
Lets get real ... DSLRs are being championed by the same man who championed the film adapter before the DSLR ... Mr Bloom is a great ambassador when it comes to the film look but as a video producer I have to weigh up what suits my customer. At this point in time the DSLR is in it's infancy and when you take on board the vast difference in weight between a DSLR and an EX-3 with a film adapter and "sore back problems" are you surprised Mr Bloom is embracing the DSLR.
Remember Phil is one in a million and his ability to get some great footage out of a DSLR is more a testimony to him as a Director of Photography. The DSLR will either get more Video/audio enriched or it will die like Betamax, HDDVD...etc.
I predict that Canon will come out with a solid state camcorder that will take 35mm lenses and have the same chip as the 5D Mk11 then you will see the demise of the DSLR but the positive side will be that your Canon lenses will fit the new Film Like camcorder.
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Give me a break. If you think Phillip Bloom is the reason DSLRs are becoming popular you need to stop blogging. I fear you may be propagating misinformation to the masses. Sorry, man.
 
So who beyond Philip Bloom has such a large following on the DSLR/Film Like topic, he is also the only person to date with 2 teaching DVDs on the 5DMk11 and the 7D.
2 major manufactures Panasonic and Canon gave him exclusive access to the GH1 and the 7D.
I am not a big fan of the DSLR but you seem to have some beef with Philip Bloom.
 
Beef with Phillip Bloom? Let me have what you're smoking. I CRAVE it.

Fact of the Matter is that there are 150 people viewing the 7D forum right now, and most of those people were following DSLRs when the D90 first hit. It's because of the entirety of we shooters-- in every walk from skateboard videos to event to commercial cinematography-- as a whole that are moving this along.

Some of us own and shoot RED, others were 35mm Adapter Lovers, we're all pushing these in productions that we may or may not be getting paid for and continuing to perpetuate the lust for the inexplicably satisfying imagery that we're getting out of these.
 
Well that's fine by me, I am sorry if I hit a raw nerve, as usual the back ground boys like yourselves never get the recognition you deserve. I am only too happy to show good work on my blog as I have done, Frank Glencairn being one of them.
 
When it comes to these HDSLR's, you either love them or hate them. There is no denying that the image out them has some sort of aesthetic quality that is beautiful, even if it it just smoke and mirrors. You can not get a similar image out of a small chip cam. Yes the image out of the small chip cam is technically better (as Barry continues to stress), but to me it just looks like nice HD footage, hell, cheap cams like the Canon HFS100 can do nice HD footage. We love the HDSLR's for the shallow dof, the amazing low-light capabilities and the dynamic range, something that seems to be lacking in the small chip cams. I attended a local film festival that was won by a guy filming on a Canon 5Dmark2 with only three lenses. Also at the festival were three films shot on 16mm and two on 35mm. The runner up shot on an HPX500, a cam that technically produces an image that puts the canon to shame but I preferred the look of the HDSLR and so did the audience. A true filmmaker can overcome the limitations of his equipment as this guy did . The fact of the matter is, if two filmmakers of identical talent were each given $15,000 to make the same film and if one bought an expensive cam like the EX1 or EX3 and the other bought a 7D and rented some lenses, the 7D film would probably come out better, simply because there would be more money left over for things like cranes, dollys and lighting. These HDSLR's are so great because they are cheap and produce an image that appears to be expensive. I expect the image out of a proper cam to be better because it is so much more expensive. If I can beat the image out of a EX-like cam because I know how to milk every ounce off footage out of my 7D, than more power to me. We are judged by clueless audiences and often clueless clients. If they like the look, go for it. It is obvious they like the look of HDSLR's. Here is my final example, SNL recently did a broadcast short on the Canon 7D and another in the same episode on the MEGAEXPENSIVE Phantom HD Gold. Do you think the audience could tell the difference? No. Hollywood has been exploiting the cluelessness of audiences for years and nothing is about to change. If everyone in the audience could see image flaws like Barry with the naked eye, Hollywood would have been in trouble along time ago. Hell, I never would have used some of the shaky cam footage that made the final cut in Public Enemies, in my $5000 budget film.
 
Bloom as well as Barry Green and a host of top of the industry professionals are part of the Big companies research and testers because that is the way it works out. They have earned their reputation thru excellent work. Al industries work the same way. If you are not a recognized pro you are not in the inner circle of top industry.
 
If we can accept "smoke and mirros" in our codecs and pure voodoo in our midi soundtracks, then why can't the magic of "aliased sharpness" be a usuable tool? And when did resolution rise to the level of sole deciding factor for quality? We obviously are missing something with this black and white (with smeary green aliasing) view of what is and isn't "awful".
 
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