7d or wait for Sony? Are they joining the game on 10/20/09?

resolution is not everything, this is why there are diffusion filters, why some like RED 2K more than RED 4K, why 35mm beat out 65mm.
 
mhood said:
then why can't the magic of "aliased sharpness" be a usuable tool?
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It can! That's the whole point, that's what's happening here. But it is not without its perils, as any shortcut.

And when did resolution rise to the level of sole deciding factor for quality?
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Er... when everyone needed something to gripe about the HVX? :D I think folks will recall that I was a rather staunch defender of the concept of images looking good as the deciding factor for quality. And in most cases, the DSLRs qualify. But not through technical competence, rather through the trickery or (as you called it) "magic" of aliased sharpness.

We obviously are missing something with this black and white (with smeary green aliasing) view of what is and isn't "awful".
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The fact is that the aliasing is in all the pictures you shoot. Whether it interacts and becomes horrid or not, that's the question. The chart shows what the camera is capable of doing to you, and you will not know it until you get back to the edit bay. I think it's enough of an issue that people should familiarize themselves with it.
 
My friends are wine buff's that turn their noses up at any drop that's reasonably priced. They have an educated palate and need expensive stuff to satisfy their tastes. I can't tell the difference between a $5 bottle and a $100 bottle.

Similairly, I reckon some of you guys 'suffer' a very educated eye. While many of us are relatively happy to watch sub perfect footage it obviously irks others. As somebody mentioned in one thread half the people I know can't even tell they are watching the wrong aspect ratio.

Suppose it comes down to your expected audience, delivery method and even personal tastes as to whether you are using the correct videographic tools or not.
 
leepback said:
My friends are wine buff's that turn their noses up at any drop that's reasonably priced. They have an educated palate and need expensive stuff to satisfy their tastes. I can't tell the difference between a $5 bottle and a $100 bottle.
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lol..Nice.
 
HDWarrior said:
Lets get real ... DSLRs are being championed by the same man who championed the film adapter before the DSLR ... Mr Bloom is a great ambassador when it comes to the film look
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:huh:
Any links to Bloom non random work with actual script ? Guess not.
You are UK guy like him ,this explains a little bit but its weird anyway.I live in UK too.You can like his vids its OK but "Champion"? Get real.
My post might sound offensive but i think this was too far to spread weird things like that so i commented and wrote what i felt.Ill probably will be moderated for this,if not then thanks.
 
Phillips head, Flathead, Phillips Head, Flat Head, Star driver, Allen wrench...

Know what tools are good for what jobs, and what tools aren't.

Barry has done us a great service showing what the technical resolving limitations of the 7D are since everyone else has been showing us what it's strengths are. I personally want to know what it CAN'T do well just as much as I want to know what it CAN do well.

You have so many options out there for making a film, and with digital grading, the majority of them inter-cut very well.

Hopefully tomorrow Sony raises the bar again, and in a few months someone else does the same.

You can only future proof technology so much, make money with it, shoot some cool stuff, win some festivals, get better at your craft, and then move on when the next great thing comes out.

Nobody says that you have to buy a camera at all, you can rent all of these cameras depending on where you live, for a fraction of what they cost if you only have a few shoot days on your project. Then hand it back and rent the next great thing for your next project.

I'm happy with the 7D for what I paid and for what it can do, and I'm really curious to see what Sony announces tomorrow.


Chris
 
I have to say that The Bloom is a pro's pro. There is no doubt about that. And I am not even an "UK guy" like him.
 
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Let's not forget the grass-roots lure of this technology;

The photographic potential of a good still's camera can now be used to capture the moving image (and even carried around in a backpack with your flask of coffee and sandwiches!).

This is the democratisation of the tools of the cinematographer, a privilege that was previously very expensive, very exclusive and exceedingly difficult to cart up a mountain.

In the end, however, that you can buy an electronic piano for $50 will not make you a Mozart!
 
Kholi said:
Technical me says: This guy's spot on.

Audience and producer me says: you're out of your mind.

I say, and I keep saying, that I won't do any MAJOR work on the 7D. And by major I mean like a feature film. But I would certainly whip these two cameras out on every other shoot that didn't require a lot of post tweaking.

And, then, on the other hand I know for a fact the 7D is a Feature Film worthy camera. Because there were people saying "No way I would use a 35mm adapter and Video Camera for a feature BLAH BLIPPITY BLOOP" and, hey, you only need to roll to your local Best Buy and pick up THE SIGNAL to see what it's like to walk instead of talk.
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Ian-T said:
I sat here thinking about responding to many of these negative, measurebating (as Chris Hurd puts it), pixel peeping threads that seems to say "you can't"..."this sucks"..."it will never be..." etc and I just couldn't find the right words. But this post kind of sums up what I was thinking. They say history has a tendency of repeating itself. Didn't we all go through this phaze with DV/HDV? I don't care what new format surfaces we WILL continue to find its weaknesses. But there will always be someone to exploit their strengths. I have not obtained this cam as yet but I'm luvin what I see through others who don't care about specs and also those who don't listen to the "it will never be good enough for...(fill in the blank).

Just before I read your post I was literally thinking of "28 Days Later." How did that anomaly happen? regardless,...it happened...and people enjoyed it. As soft as it might of looked on the "Big Screen" (I never noticed back then) we are at a point where resolution is probably 8 times more (just guessing here) ....so that's not an issue. Color is superb...(even with 4:2:0)... Personally I think we are at a point where it doesn't matter if camera "A's" resolution is better than camera "B" because these cams today (including the "weak" resolving ones) are more than enough to fool people into thinking that they are high end gear especially when handled correctly. Nothing wrong with a little smoke and mirrors. All this measurebating is good to a point (to let us know their strengths and weaknesses) but like I mentioned....they are ALL good enough to give a professional presentation when in the right hands.
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Awesome posts. This is gospel to really, really, REALLY, low budget filmmakers like me. Great stuff.
 
The new Ex1-R isn't in the 7D's price range - us UK'ers are looking at list price of £6710+vat. Mitcorp have it at £5399+vat (£6208.85inc) pre-order.

However, with the 5D getting 25P, now it's a hard decision!
 
For me, choosing between a HD-SLR or the EX1-R is a no brainer. 1) I can't afford it. 2) I prefer the low light performance and shallow depth of field, not to mention the lens adaptability of a HD-SLR.
 
All down to budget and that's the way it's always been if you need the SDoF that the DSLR gives you then it's the camera for you. PS That's great news about the 5DMk11 getting firmware next year to allow 24 and 25fps.
Simple there are 2 camps the VIDEO CAMP and the FILM LIKE CAMP we all have the same goals to film something for others to enjoy !
 
leepback said:
My friends are wine buff's that turn their noses up at any drop that's reasonably priced. They have an educated palate and need expensive stuff to satisfy their tastes. I can't tell the difference between a $5 bottle and a $100 bottle.
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Actually, neither can they. Quite a few studies have established that good cheap wines do as well as expensive ones in blind taste tests, and a recent behavioral economics study established that people rated a wine higher when they had paid more for it (a tasting session with high entry prices was set up and the money refunded afterwards).

This is not to say that test metrics and all educated opinions are meaningless, far from it - but foreknowledge does make a difference. As long as you manage for the known weaknesses of your camera (from avoiding moire on a digital to limiting your pan speed on a film camera) and more importantly, shoot compelling subject matter, you'll be OK.
 
I'm still waiting for the big news.
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Ya...me too. What a bunch of HYPE MONGERS! I'm really thoughtful about this whole "thing". Barry Green has been posting about DSLRs and their down falls. Let me say how much I appreciate his technical expertise and all of his help on this forum. (No if/ands/or buts) Clearly, he is a stud. I also appreciate his admission to the fact that, you can tell a story with any tool, and that you shouldn't "use a hammer to wash the dishes"....knowing the weaknesses of DSLRs let's you intelligently approach your productions with the strengths for Camcorders yadda yadda yadda.

FLAT OUT....are we just biased and NUTS on this forum? (I'm including myself) Since I've been shooting with DSLRs.....I have a HUGE preference for shooting with them. I started out about 10 years ago with a GL1. Soon after moved up to a shoulder mound Sony DSR-200a (2 of them)....I got out of production about 3-4 years ago. I started up (again), with, of all cameras, the D90. Even with it's problems, I prefer it 10 times over the shoulder mount "made for serious productions" video cameras.

I find that I approach the whole process differently. I find that I like the look of the footage MUCH better. I DO SEE what Barry is talking about and I appreciate his hard work. PLEASE KEEPING DOING IT BARRY!

That said...I don't know if I can ever go back to a "camcorder" style camera? I think Sony is making a big mistake by staying out of the game for so long. I'll also say that I'm so glad that the Scarlet has a DSLR ergonomic +modularity to expand it if needed. (YES, I will be looking at the RED schedule 10/30/09.) In the meantime, I will NOT be considering the EX-R1. (8000? Duh!) I am watching VERY closely as far as the 7D goes. If I were to bet on it....I'm probably going to be a 7D owner before the end of the year.

LONG LIVE DSLRs!!! Or....somebody come out with something with a better final image, that is as stealthy to shoot in public with, that costs less money, with cheaper lens options and flexibility. Bottom line: We've got it pretty good guys!

ps...Thanks again Barry for your hard work!
 
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