7D 7D, 5D vs. new SONY NEX VG1O ??
- Thread starter George D.
- Start date
maranfilms
Veteran
I agree, I have said many times, If they employed someone like barry Green to set a list of specs that people want and need any of these companies that make video cams would make a hell of a lot more money, and sell many more units. It's odd to me they can't figure this out.
steventimothy
Well-known member
I'm shocked... shocked!
Erich Ocean
Active member
Bingo.
We're talking about a $2K Super35mm Handycam with removable lenses that sends 1080p 25PsF uncompressed 422 progressive video out the HDMI port. Three years ago, we would have busted our asses to figure out the workflow and get shooting.
Actually, we did. We already know how to make this camera rock. (See's Bruce's post above.)
Not for filmmakers? I'm a filmmaker who's more than happy to spend the $8K to make the NEX-VG10 the primary imager for my PL mount glass for the next 6-9 months until the native PL mount Super35mm Sony comes out in the spring.
The point is, it is NOT progressive, it IS interlaced, and THAT throws it right out of the ball park for my purposes. Broadcast HD television producers do not want interlaced video. Don't believe me? Ask one.
Erich Ocean
Active member
Sorry, you're just plain wrong. The camera cannot capture interlaced frames, it only captures progressive frames and it stores them as 30PsF (NTSC) or 25PsF (PAL) format.
You don't have to trust me, download the sample video on Vimeo. There's no interlacing.
This whole "NEX-VG10 only shoots interlaced" meme needs to die.
I'm sorry too, but YOU are wrong. According to THIS article in PC World, it shoots 60i (interlaced) and ONLY interlaced:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/201036/sony_nexvg10_an_hd_camcorder_with_dslr_brains.html
I'd love it if you can prove me wrong.
stoneinapond
Veteran
I wouldn't use PC World for toilet paper.
Anyway, the issue is a little more complex than they make it out to be. I found the following helpful.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_segmented_frame
Ian-T
Veteran
That's nice. I'm sure you represent the lot of professionals here but I'm not sure that your profile makes up the majority of users at this site.
I might have missed it but does this have HDMI out?
HDkilledFILM.
Burnin' down the House
Barry, I think this all the time!!! ALL THE TIME!!!! PEOPLE, these cameras are AWESOME!!!! Just think back to where we started and if your new to the game google digibeta lol.... WE ARE LUCKY to have the ability to b**ch and moan about these cameras!
Erich Ocean
Active member
Yes. In the Pro Video Coalition article, the author says his Sony rep told him that the HDMI output is before compression. I'm going to be hooking it up to an AJA Ki Pro and recording ProRes 422.
Link: http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/freshdv/story/sony_nex-vg10_announced/
Ian-T
Veteran
Thanks for that reminder. But I think what some folks are up in arms about is exactly what this excerpt from your link states:
But...it is what it is and I agree with barry's statement about who would have sold thier grandmother 3 years ago to get this thing. But really, based on what the competition has been and will offer...it's a no-brainer for some folks.
Erich Ocean
Active member
Here's a screen grab from the 1080p video I downloaded from Vimeo of the NEX-VG10 sample footage. I picked a frame with very high amounts of motion to demonstrate that the footage is progressive.
http://skitch.com/onitunes/dc5t8/inspector
http://skitch.com/onitunes/dc5t8/inspector
Ian-T
Veteran
Nice.
Good info there, but I wonder how easy it would be to convince major television producers of that.
I still don't like being locked in at 60fps, interlaced OR progressive. Why didn't they give us more options?
I'm not getting this in september, but I'm very excited where things are going with this. As for lenses I checked ebay and all the third party adapters that you can get for the gh1 are available for this, so full manual lenses of any brand are not a problem, remember that nex cameras with this mount are already available. I also would not be surprised if this is closely followed by a pro model with 24p and xlr's. This seems to be the way sony does things. If you want 24p you must be pro and can pay a bit more. But considering this is a consumer camera I am rooting for canon to make a retooled video version as well. I know the pro line is always 5 years behind the curve, but the consumer line seems very pro-active, hv20 el al.
Don't disregard the notion of still sensor in a camcorder body. It can have a video tuned olpf. There is no moire issues on 1/3" sensors that have 8 mega pixels... there is more room in the body for cooling, processing and can have bigger batteries. A consumer doesn't care if the still shots are not as sharp as a pro slr, just as long as it has the megapixels, they will be viewed as slideshows at 2k max or 4x6 prints.
In our constant quest for the next big thing, consumer products are where its at. Sony will sell probably 100,000 of this type for every 1 F35, maybe more. That is were the development money comes from.
Don't disregard the notion of still sensor in a camcorder body. It can have a video tuned olpf. There is no moire issues on 1/3" sensors that have 8 mega pixels... there is more room in the body for cooling, processing and can have bigger batteries. A consumer doesn't care if the still shots are not as sharp as a pro slr, just as long as it has the megapixels, they will be viewed as slideshows at 2k max or 4x6 prints.
In our constant quest for the next big thing, consumer products are where its at. Sony will sell probably 100,000 of this type for every 1 F35, maybe more. That is were the development money comes from.
stoneinapond
Veteran
Yeah, I saw that.
(Warning - obvious statement ahead) :badputer:
I think the whole industry is in the middle of a massive paradigm shift. Old technology, new technology, film, digital, delivery mediums, all suffering from huge tectonic plate shifts.
My impression of the Sony camera is that it takes stunning footage. I don't like some of the bokeh that certain lenses deliver and I'm not sure where I would use such a camera if I had one (which I won't).
But it needs to be said again and again. The story is king. Emotion is vital. Picture quality we can capture at the present moment was only a wild dream in many peoples minds at this price point not so long ago. If you can't make good content with this camera, chances are you still have a long way still to go.
If this was the perfect camera, people would still find things wrong with it. But it is a huge step in the right direction for some, and I'm thankful it out there to spur the inevitable competition.
You are absolutely correct.
The problem with me is, I need a camera AS GOOD as the upcoming Scarlet (if it ever comes out), and in a price range under the cost of a new RED-One, right now, not 5 years down the line.
So, my search goes on, just like it has for the last 2 years.
Barry_Green
Moderator
All HDMI output on every camera is before compression, that I know of. I don't know every camera intimately, obviously, but I can't think of one that sends a compressed-and-then-decompressed output to its HDMI (except for playback, of course).