C100: 7 Weeks to NAB - Anyone hearing anything besides conjecture about a C100 MKIII?
- Thread starter puredrifting
- Start date
JPNola
Veteran
He was being idiotic and foolish.
I am not sure if you are saying what I think I am thinking but ... it would indeed be an interesting switch if Canon had brought out C400/C500 MKII at around $17,000-$18,000 and dropped the C300 MKII price down to $10,000 or below. The current gossip implies otherwise but it's easier to squeeze in between 300II and 700, a gap which currently stands at about $25,000 for the Raw enabled packages.
Eh. No I wasn't. I was clearly referring to the Fs7. You went from the fs5 all the way to the f55. I never said anything about the f55. But I don't want to fight about this. It is tedious. The point I was trying to make is that the mkii still has its place in the market and is comparable (that make you feel better?) to some larger offerings by other companies. There is enough people out there who still love/want this camera who won't be swayed by 4k or increased frame rates.
JPNola
Veteran
You wrote:
" the Sony products are video like in the worse sense of the word and haven't been touched by any dp that I know of."
Not just the Fs7, but "the Sony products". Was I supposed to take "the Sony products", plural, to mean only the Fs7? I never went from the Fs5 to the F55. I never mentioned the Fs5. I merely noted that it is absurd to suggest that no serious dp will touch any Sony product.
It really doesn't matter to me a whole lot what camera I use. Particularly since, in my work, I am not involved in post and am a pure shooter only. Whatever a client requests or provides, I use. There are times when I don't even know what camera model I will be using until I arrive on location. And I don't always bother asking what camera I will be using.
"The point I was trying to make is that the mkii still has its place in the market "
Actually, you went much further than that. You said the Canon C100 is a far superior camera to the Fs7 and, as noted, you disparaged the entire Sony line. None of which was in any way necessary to make the point that the mkii still has its place in the market. As to your snide remark about my feelings, it seems that it was you who got your feelings all butt-hurt because someone suggested the mkii no longer has a place, and it retaliation you took a swipe at the entire Sony product line and said that no dp that you know will even touch a Sony product.
You suggested that the only advantages of a Sony Fs7 over a C100 is 4k and high frame rates. That is just the sort of statement that gets you into trouble. I won't go into detail here, I'm not enough of a techie to know all the info, but there are advantages beyond those two. One of those would be the Fs7's ability to record in ProRes, a request I regularly receive from clients. Another would be the electronic ND of the Fs7 mk ii. And then there are the aforementioned better ergonomics of the Fs7. Another would be the Fs7's ability to use full-size batteries without having to purchase an accessory from another company. The C100 / C300 can really be a pain to use. The audio controls being married to the LCD was a bad idea from the start and the lack of a useful, full-size monocular viewfinder hampers shoulder-mounted use of the Canon C family of cameras. Simply put, the design is goofy. Who designs a professional video camera to where the XLR inputs can accidentally be forgotten back at the shop and the poor Sound Op has to use a 3.5mm jack as a result?? Or designs a camera in such a way that re-positioning of the LCD also moves the position of the audio pots? Lovely images out of the C100 & C300. Okay, I get it. But the design of the cameras is like that joke about a camel being a horse designed by a committee.
You can't just take my quote out of context. I was clearly referring to the Fs7 and it's cheaper siblings, which is why in response someone gave me a list of the DPs who had used it on feature films. I don't want to get int a fight. Yes, I think the c100 produces a better image than the Fs7, and some people here agree with me. I used the example of the DPs shying away from the Fs7 on feature films because that is a truism. People are more inclined to pick Canon on these kinds of projects--but not all projects, don't get me wrong. So if people think the Fs7 is a good camera and are happy to buy it in today's market then the c100 should be considered just as relevant--4k or not. In fact I have not heard any substantiated rumours about a mark iii camera, which makes me think there isn't a whole heap of demand for it. All canonrumours say is that it would make logical sense to introduce a baby brother to the c300 mkii.
Some of what you say about ergonomics is correct, but some of it can be overcome like the prores. Different horses for different courses as my boss used to say. For me, the c100 is good for a solo operator; it's not bulky and I can manage it quite easily. You prefer the Fs7, that's fine.
I'm sure your a nice guy and so am I, but the internet does things to people, evil things lol. Anyway, i apologise if I have inadvertently changed the course of this discussion. Back to topic:
No credible news; Canon executive has said:
"Q: Looking at 4K TV saturation, what kind of time-frame does that suggest and when do you think it will be necessary to have 4K in every part of your product line?
A: We obviously have to look at the technical feasibility of it, cost-wise, as well as [the challenge of power consumption]. Those factors will tell us how we will introduce 4K technologies going forward.
We will continue to challenge and overcome these technical hurdles that we are seeing at moment in introducing 4K into our entire product lineup. But it is important to keep in mind that we don’t want to harm the original inherent concept of these products. 4K should compliment, rather than hinder."
Dont know if good or bad news for c100 mkiii
Some of what you say about ergonomics is correct, but some of it can be overcome like the prores. Different horses for different courses as my boss used to say. For me, the c100 is good for a solo operator; it's not bulky and I can manage it quite easily. You prefer the Fs7, that's fine.
I'm sure your a nice guy and so am I, but the internet does things to people, evil things lol. Anyway, i apologise if I have inadvertently changed the course of this discussion. Back to topic:
No credible news; Canon executive has said:
"Q: Looking at 4K TV saturation, what kind of time-frame does that suggest and when do you think it will be necessary to have 4K in every part of your product line?
A: We obviously have to look at the technical feasibility of it, cost-wise, as well as [the challenge of power consumption]. Those factors will tell us how we will introduce 4K technologies going forward.
We will continue to challenge and overcome these technical hurdles that we are seeing at moment in introducing 4K into our entire product lineup. But it is important to keep in mind that we don’t want to harm the original inherent concept of these products. 4K should compliment, rather than hinder."
Dont know if good or bad news for c100 mkiii
That's what they said but maybe Canon will zig when it's expected to zag. Filling that 300MKII-700 gap does make sense. Under the double the price theory, if C300II goes down to $10,000, as many have pontificated, then the $20,000 point is wide open, since the C700 Raw package with the Codex recorder runs some $50,000+.
The Canon guy was talking about the consumer line. Well, really obfuscating more than talking. Panasonic and Sony have been making affordable 4K cameras for three years now. Canon just decided to take out a different niche in exchange for other favors.
misundestanding : I read FS5 and not F55.
bullshit marketing to name two cameras by names so close
F55 is a great cam I use it all the time for doc its perfect
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Still pondering how a thread about a potential C100 MKIII turned into a war about the professional suitability of the while line of Sony Pro video cameras? You guys are more ADD than my 11 year old neice!
JPNola
Veteran
We're all good.
I was overly harsh in my characterization of your post.
And yes, the Sony naming can lead to confusion. There is a cultural affection for odd numbers which results in the confusing naming such as F5, Fs5, F55. Rather than simply name a model "F6". Sony and Canon generally use odd numbers and less frequently use even numbers. I'd prefer it if both Sony and Canon went with names for camera models as ARRI does. You may have noticed that is what automaker Porsche recently did. They switched from numbers- 911, 912, 928, 968- to names - Cayman, Carrera, Cayenne, Panamera. The names became too confusing.
We can reduce the confusion regarding camera models here on the forum by making effort to be specific. If one is referring to the C100 Mk II, use the full name rather than simply "mkii". And if you are talking about the Sony Fs7 & Sony Fs5, use those names and not "Sony products".
I was overly harsh in my characterization of your post.
And yes, the Sony naming can lead to confusion. There is a cultural affection for odd numbers which results in the confusing naming such as F5, Fs5, F55. Rather than simply name a model "F6". Sony and Canon generally use odd numbers and less frequently use even numbers. I'd prefer it if both Sony and Canon went with names for camera models as ARRI does. You may have noticed that is what automaker Porsche recently did. They switched from numbers- 911, 912, 928, 968- to names - Cayman, Carrera, Cayenne, Panamera. The names became too confusing.
We can reduce the confusion regarding camera models here on the forum by making effort to be specific. If one is referring to the C100 Mk II, use the full name rather than simply "mkii". And if you are talking about the Sony Fs7 & Sony Fs5, use those names and not "Sony products".
JPNola
Veteran
Well, actually, conversation regarding a potential C100 MKIII was off-topic for this thread since the topic starter asked about conjecture OTHER THAN conjecture about a Canon C100 MKIII !!
I'll go back to my speculation that this will be a "down" year for NAB and there won't be much exciting in the camera or lens world. There has been such a flurry of late and I think maybe we are in between bursts of new products. And I don't anticipate Nikon making any NAB announcement of a shoulder-mount style Nikon video camera that shoots 4K to compete with the Canon and Sony professional level video cameras.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
I was hoping someone might have leaked from NDA, an anonymous source, it's been known to happen. What I was hoping to avoid was just people listing their wish list for a C300 MKIII because YouTube is full of videos already doing so, I am guilty of doing so even. Canonrumors.com not sure what their track record has been, especially with the EOS Cinema cameras, versus just the DSLRs. Based upon what I have seen in this thread, I think you are right JP, there doesn't seem to be ANY concrete buzz or chatter about a C100 MKIII or C200 or really anything new from Canon. That's probably a sign that this will be a boring, quiet NAB unless Sony has something up their sleeve. As far as Nikon, the fact that they canceled the entire DL line before it was shipped indicates not to expect anything new from them, least of all a category busting video camera. I think Nikon may be done. Panasonic has introduced a flurry of fixed lens cameras lately, the Varicam LT is still pretty new and mostly seems to have supplanted the regular Varicams for a lot of production. I would be surprised to see much ground breaking from them. BMD is done as far as announcements. Who else is there who would make a big NAB camera splash? RED introduces all of their stuff on their own timeline at their own events. JVC is irrelevant for pro video.
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
8 bit 4:2:0 Arri camera in a C100 size with Alexa sensor for around $6000.
ARRI can't make an "affordable" model (unless one counts a $40,000 Amira as affordable) due to the cost of production and the historical market position. (I know Eric was joking) I doubt they'd even discount the Alexa line, should the new 6K sensor be passed down from Alexa65. They'll just have $100,000 Alexas and $250,000 Alexas.
And, with a month and a half to go until the NAB, a bunch of official announcements ought to be on their way. Unlike JP, I think there'll be plenty of new pro products there.
And, with a month and a half to go until the NAB, a bunch of official announcements ought to be on their way. Unlike JP, I think there'll be plenty of new pro products there.
Jaime Valles
Veteran
Haha! That would be awesome, but there's no way they want to dillute the ARRI brand with a bunch of crappy wedding footage shot on the cheap-o Alexa. They like being the high-end option for Hollywood, with low volume sales at huge prices.