5D and Cineform for grading. Yay or Nay?

Adam J McKay

Adam J McKay

Veteran
I have been asking around a number of places and I am getting mixed reviews. I am in pre production on a feature to be shot on the 5D and were debating whether or not to spend the few extra bucks on cineform or not, as we will be editing with CS5 and it can handles the files natively. So as far as the edit goes, I know we will have no issue not using cineform, but when it comes to the grading, would we benefit? I know you cannot actually add more source information when up converting to 10bit 422, but I have heard people say that you do have some more leeway in post, especially with cineform. Does anyone have any experience with this?

Thanks,
 
Because I work in Vegas, I use Neoscene. It's an awesome tool and I have no complaints whatsoever. But I often wonder if I had the choice to use it or not, would I? I would say the answer is yes for me personally.
What did you decide?
 
CS5 has its own thingy going on with Premiere, but if you're serious about what you're doing you have an intermediate workflow.
 
Adam J McKay said:
I have been asking around a number of places and I am getting mixed reviews. I am in pre production on a feature to be shot on the 5D and were debating whether or not to spend the few extra bucks on cineform or not, as we will be editing with CS5 and it can handles the files natively. So as far as the edit goes, I know we will have no issue not using cineform, but when it comes to the grading, would we benefit? I know you cannot actually add more source information when up converting to 10bit 422, but I have heard people say that you do have some more leeway in post, especially with cineform. Does anyone have any experience with this?

Thanks,
Click to expand...

The codec is fantastic, not only speeds up the editing, make better grading, is a fantastic bridge with after effects. BUT I had the experience to try first Neoscene, and after that NEO, and Neo is more expensive but has higher quality options, is very stable, I felt the difference.
 
I say a definite NO. You will be increasing the size of your files tenfold for no image quality reasons. CS5 can edit 5d material with a breeze. You will get absolutely nothing for going cineform.
 
maarek said:
I say a definite NO. You will be increasing the size of your files tenfold for no image quality reasons. CS5 can edit 5d material with a breeze. You will get absolutely nothing for going cineform.
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Woah - that's a big claim. I am afraid I have to disagree. If you want minimal grading then the bigger file sizes may be an issue for some. But the biggest issue is that right off the bat 5D footage off the card can truncate your black levels ( with certain software combos ) without giving full range luma values

http://cineform.blogspot.com/2009/01/full-dynamic-range-video-from-canon-5d.html

Cineform corrects this.

Also - the videos linked above demonstrate that you can actaully make your footage look like anything you want now that we have the flat Technicolor picture profile. Cineform Firstlight gives you a unparalleled flexibility in grading of any colour grading solution IMHO. 3D Luts......... Where else can you do it so easily in software in real time?
 
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Felipe Henao said:
The codec is fantastic, not only speeds up the editing, make better grading, is a fantastic bridge with after effects. BUT I had the experience to try first Neoscene, and after that NEO, and Neo is more expensive but has higher quality options, is very stable, I felt the difference.
Click to expand...

I believe that the whole NEO family has now been merged into one.
 
I use Neo a lot, and I cannot recommend it highly enough. For short-form projects with not a lot of post work, I appreciate the engine that runs in Premiere to handle the H.264 files. However, if I want ease of use coupled with the ability to do serious color correction on the footage, it's Cineform Neo all the way.

Frankly, I think that Neo is a better deal now than it ever has been since everything was rolled into it and the price is $299. A steal in my opinion.

And don't even get me started on First Light.
 
I still wish there was an easier way to correct video in lightroom, my that would be amazing. Also, I want to add that I just downloaded the trial and did a test with clip I shot with the 5D a few months back, and there is no comparison. It is right away apparent that the Cineform footage holds up significantly better when doing some heavier grading, which then makes it a no brainer for a feature film, especially combined with cinestyle. I am going to try and do some test and upload them for everyone to see.
 
Exactly, Adam. I don't use Cineform for every project, but when I'm going to do a lot of heavy editing/grading, I will instantly throw it to Cineform.
 
I started with cineform but switched to Avid DnxHD. The file size is double. But the important factor for me was not dealing with the hassle of activation when switching editing computers. The quality is the same if not better. Avid is free. I would absolutely not grade in H.264.
 
capitanfracassa said:
I started with cineform but switched to Avid DnxHD. The file size is double. But the important factor for me was not dealing with the hassle of activation when switching editing computers. The quality is the same if not better. Avid is free. I would absolutely not grade in H.264.
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You would say DNX is on par if not better than cineform?
 
Cineform is far superior, test them both, If you use Premiere drop a clip in the time line converted by the Avid codec, then add a correction or effect and
you will see how it can not take corrections, TRY IT.
How ever in my favorite Editor Sony Vegas can take corrections, but even there you can tell the difference TRY IT.
 
On the subject of Cineform, I've been using it successfully to convert AVCHD to avi and edit on Vegas 9, but have a problem now that I'm using the P2 system: Cineform converts the footage and the sound and video quality are both fine, except...the video is running at about twice the normal speed. Now, I'm new to this system and can't even get my computer to recognise the HPX camera (have transfered data to an external hard drive and then to computer), so any sort of advice would be very much appreciated. By the way, I downloaded a trial version of Raylight and could plop the data onto the Vegas time line without the double speed problem. But I'm not about to pay $190 for something that I shouldn't need, having already got Cineform.
 
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