FS7: 5 reasons the URSA Mini is better than the Sony FS7

Nirv said:
Every marketing suit knows that most people buy on paper specs.

The Ursa will create a lovely image but it's not the right type of camera for me. I don't ever rule out BMD making my next camera but it just hasn't happened yet.
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You're absolutely right Nirv. Doesn't mean you aren't allowed to call these on their bullshit or bring their history of doing this to the attention of people.

I think I saw one video so far with the 4.6k Ursa that made me take notice of it as most of the vids out there are poorly shot, not lit, and graded horrifically and tend to be blown out and/or crushed and always with an awful preset Cyan/Teal LUT thing going on.

Can't remember what the good one was...
 
Because as with any premium tool you're also paying for reliability, maturity of interface, ergonomics, consistency and workflow plus support etc.


It's the same as when people try to say a Zeiss ZF is the same as a CP2 for filmmaking for a fraction of the price because it shares the same optical element, ignoring completely what it is that you're paying for with a cine lens. Now, if you work in an environment where you wouldn't be taking advantage of what a cine lens brings to the party then by all means have at it and enjoy your ZF, but that doesn't change what makes the CP2 a solid performer and a solid step up and time/moneysaver for production.

Likewise, I'm not a fan of this camera Top Trumps but even if the images were identical between an Alexa and an Ursa, studios still wouldn't make movies on an Ursa because the downtime would end up costing the production a lot more. It's comparing apples to oranges.
 
morgan_moore said:
My 2003 £15g Haselblad digi-back was a king.. now it is probably threatened by some phones. That king is dead.
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that was cheap. I started in 2003 with 27,500€ (net) PhaseOne.
Updated in 2005, 2009 and 2010.
Now it's a 7,500€ Pentax 645z.
Long live the King (probably he won't)
 
Ben Scott said:
Because as with any premium tool you're also paying for reliability, maturity of interface, ergonomics, consistency and workflow plus support etc.
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Well, I shot a feature on a (£1500) BMC 4k and camera downtime was zero. The menu is simple, the 4k Prores integrated to a consistent workflow.

My downtime with Sony has been close to zero, including the FS7 FS100, F3 and EX1, I got one corrupt card from the FS100.

In stills my downtime with the hasselbad happened.. my nikon D1/2/3 Ive had one failure when the camera was rain drenched for hours.

The only camera Ive ever seen offline is a 2009 build Red.

Moral.. if you want no downtime have a spare body or two.. entirely possible on the BMC costings. I doubt the Alexa or any other camera will survive dropping in the sea off a rib or a blat from a big wave.. they are all fallible. And all of them can be stolen.. none more so than Arri (I know what id steal :) )

The other downtime aspect that I find crucial is ability to shoot to double media.. I dont know if that is possible with the Alexa or the BM4.6

BTW I do get the pros of Arri mainly through design detailing, your other factors, I just don't think downtime is a selling factor.

S
 
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'downtime' in the context of my post refers to every step in the production or post-production schedule that is slowed down due to the camera choice. Not just the camera having a fault.

With the greatest respect Sam, while you may have shot a feature length film on a BMC 4K, you weren't a studio producing a movie for theatrical release, which has a slightly different emphasis on costs and their implications.
 
Ben Scott said:
'downtime' in the context of my post refers to every step in the production or post-production schedule that is slowed down due to the camera choice. Not just the camera having a fault.

With the greatest respect Sam, while you may have shot a feature length film on a BMC 4K, you weren't a studio producing a movie for theatrical release, which has a slightly different emphasis on costs and their implications.
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No one would fund such an endeavour and it's easier for the due diligence and insurance purposes to go with a well established proven performer.
 
Haha fair play. I should have clarified my use of the term downtime in my original post, or avoided the term completely.

I know this is tempting fate, but aside from one of my Sony XQD cards physically breaking recently (on a shoot with a fellow forummer no less!) I have never once lost data/rushes on production in 20 years.

The only times I've lost data are from hard drives failing before backups could be made.

I have however wasted all sorts of time dealing with the various quirks of various cameras in the past. When the Scarlet first came out you'd boot it up and make a up of tea. Then run a black shade and go for lunch. Then change batteries. And THEN start shooting.

They sorted that stuff pretty quickly and their ecosystem is 1000% more mature now but working with clients sitting there looking at their watches and doing mental costings on downtime was horrible.
 
morgan_moore said:
I doubt the Alexa or any other camera will survive dropping in the sea off a rib or a blat from a big wave..
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Maybe not. But it will survive a good burn and still work. I doubt an Ursa would even power up after that. Or a FS7 for that matter.

BurnedAlexa3.jpg


b_burnedalexa_00.jpg
 
Ben Scott said:
I don't get rubbed up by cameras. I do , however, certainly get irked when people who have very limited professional experience shout from the rooftops that one camera that they have never used and which hasn't been released yet is much better than another camera they have never used. Which seems to happen with Blackmagic Cameras more than any other brand. That has been the narrative of just about every camera/production forum I have visited over the last year.
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Yep! Where it gets really funny is when people start to shout things about an untested camera as if they were facts. We all saw what happened here with the global shutter fiasco. After that I hope Blackmagic will learn. But it doesn’t seem their fans learned anything, still counting on untested things. I bet if Blackmagic announces big things this NAB, and get big delays and maybe even under deliver again their fans will still take it. As long as the cameras stay dirty cheap. Because beggars can’t be choosers.

But the Ursa 4.6K is still basically untested. The promo video looks great. It really does. A couple of ugly video high lights here and there and a few other small things. But overall it looks great. But it’s no stress test. It’s done mostly in a controlled environment. The outdoors shots less so but still. Most modern cameras would look great there. The shot in the house may look like a dynamic range test but it’s really not. The whole wall is glass. I doubt the brightness difference between outside and inside is large enough to be a modern DR stress test. It’s a promo. They are emphasizing the camera’s good side. I can’t wait till Cinema 5D gets to test it. We will see if the claimed 15 stops of DR hold up. The C300 MKII also claimed 15 stops but after tests it’s actually 12.3 stops.

But a camera is so much more than just image anyway. This is why a comparison to the Alexa is silly.
So all this talk about a camera that just started shipping by a manufacturer with a spotty track record being an Alexa is comedy. 150% of an Alexa for 10% of the price? Pure comedy. Comedy for anybody who has worked in a professional set with a full crew and shot with the Alexa.
 
I'm very curious, but i'd want to see some RAW footage first. It's a nice form factor from what i can see. It's nearly a throwaway cost, you could have a few for the price of other cameras. The global shutter is one of those things that i think most people would never actually turn on if the rolling shutter is good enough. At the end of the day no-one will compromise the range and image quality for global shutter IMHO unless it's a very specific use case.

Are there any DNGs from the camera yet? Any really demanding scenes?

EDIT : https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicursamini

looks like you can download the raw from this film, am doing that now....

cheers
Paul
 
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