4K will require hardware update

freiheit said:
i just uploaded the another sample from FS700+S-Log2 stuff.

FS700+S-Log2 : SUNNY DAY IN THE PARK
https://vimeo.com/65408916

please download the ungraded data and check the difference between CINE4, AB_NEXLOG, and S-Log2.

@paul,
yes, you're absolutely right! i believe that highlight artifacts causes by sensor too. i have meeting with Sony people next week so i will add this thing to my question list!
Click to expand...

freiheit, ... nice test.. but, may I ask you: ... are you sure that directing camera toward the sun is OK? ... I'm afraid it can be bad for the sensor ...
 
You have to pay to get the upgrade... so really it would almost be smarter to buy used so you can use the saved money for your upgrade!
 
@gene,
yes, you can apply the S-Log2 to your internal AVCHD recording, onto your SD card. it's not the way Sony recommend to do it because some of minor issue like the tone jump occurred. however i already tested the S-Log2 with AVCHD and you just watched my footages here and the first one with my tchaikovsky.
so you can use the S-Log2 just for the internal AVCHD recording, yes. however it's gonna be massive result if you can use with any external device capable 10bit or greater bit depth after the hardware upgrade.
i personally am enough happy with S-Log2, even this beta test version, and internal AVCHD combination. it already gave me the massive result! way too cool!

did you see the image i uploaded? that neon sign comparison? S-Log2 has amazingly mild curve for highlight - midtone and to me it's totally impressive!

hope we can get even better one as the final version of firmware in next month! i just can't wait!!
 
@S.Blanchardon
you're quite welcome!
"dou itashi masite" :)

i will post more stuff i shot at night and yes, 240fps! so please come back anytime!
 
@SergeSmArt
yep, i know. it's bad thing for our lovely FS700. i usually use with ND filter for pointing to the sun!
 
You are doing a an amazing job for us FS700 community freiheit. Much appreciated. My friend who has the MarkII just bought the FS700 after playing with my Fs700 for 2 months. He is so happy with the purchase.
 
freiheit said:
i just uploaded the another sample from FS700+S-Log2 stuff.

FS700+S-Log2 : SUNNY DAY IN THE PARK
https://vimeo.com/65408916

please download the ungraded data and check the difference between CINE4, AB_NEXLOG, and S-Log2.

@paul,
yes, you're absolutely right! i believe that highlight artifacts causes by sensor too. i have meeting with Sony people next week so i will add this thing to my question list!
Click to expand...


I like the AB_NEXLOG better than the cine4 profile. Can I view the details on those settings? or is that coming in summer aswell?

Thanks
Chris
 
Dan Keaton said:
Dear Friends,

I just posted the Odyssey7, Odyssey7Q, SSD and recording options details and prices.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...Design&p=1986314986&viewfull=1#post1986314986

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
Click to expand...

Very interesting. Any more detailed specs about the FS700 formats supported? Seems odd 4k is uncompressed YUV only, why no 4k RAW? YUV must require dual SSDs and use a ton of data, right? If it's YUV, does that mean the 7Q is debayering and converting to YUV internally? If so, will there be any support for other 4k formats or any plans to support 4k raw? Perhaps 4k DNxHD? Will the 2k DNG support compression? I don't think most people can handle 500+MBps 4k DPX...

Why do DPX and DNG? low/no cost to license? The idea that people will be ok with generating 2TB/hour of footage (or even 500GB/hr) for normal speed and more for high speed 4k seems pretty unrealistic. I've still never heard of anyone shooting uncompressed 4k for anything but camera tests, and I don't think that is going to change in the future due to its extreme impracticality from a data workflow standpoint. Even Sony's F65/F55/F5 RAW uses 3.6 or 6:1 compression, arriraw is uncompressed but only 2.8k, and of course RED doesn't go under 3:1 and few productions choose lower than 5:1. Those seem to be the biggest high end cameras of choice on projects with essentially unlimited camera budgets yet it sounds like people choosing FS700+7Q for 4k should expect a burden of at least 4x more data than any of those higher end camera systems?

The media prices seem somewhat reasonable being a little over 2x market prices for 3rd party SSDs, but if 2 960GB SSDs at $4400 is essentially required to shoot <1hr of 4k, it starts to look less impressive. Sounds like the minimum package for use with an FS700 will probably still cost more than an FS700.
 
freiheit said:
@gene,
yes, you can apply the S-Log2 to your internal AVCHD recording, onto your SD card. it's not the way Sony recommend to do it because some of minor issue like the tone jump occurred. however i already tested the S-Log2 with AVCHD and you just watched my footages here and the first one with my tchaikovsky.
so you can use the S-Log2 just for the internal AVCHD recording, yes. however it's gonna be massive result if you can use with any external device capable 10bit or greater bit depth after the hardware upgrade.
i personally am enough happy with S-Log2, even this beta test version, and internal AVCHD combination. it already gave me the massive result! way too cool!

did you see the image i uploaded? that neon sign comparison? S-Log2 has amazingly mild curve for highlight - midtone and to me it's totally impressive!

hope we can get even better one as the final version of firmware in next month! i just can't wait!!
Click to expand...

Wow, now that is really cool that it can work internally. Now I'm getting excited. Will be even more excited if theres a little MBPS bump.
 
nyvz said:
Very interesting. Any more detailed specs about the FS700 formats supported? Seems odd 4k is uncompressed YUV only, why no 4k RAW? YUV must require dual SSDs and use a ton of data, right? If it's YUV, does that mean the 7Q is debayering and converting to YUV internally? If so, will there be any support for other 4k formats or any plans to support 4k raw? Perhaps 4k DNxHD? Will the 2k DNG support compression? I don't think most people can handle 500+MBps 4k DPX...

Why do DPX and DNG? low/no cost to license? The idea that people will be ok with generating 2TB/hour of footage (or even 500GB/hr) for normal speed and more for high speed 4k seems pretty unrealistic. I've still never heard of anyone shooting uncompressed 4k for anything but camera tests, and I don't think that is going to change in the future due to its extreme impracticality from a data workflow standpoint. Even Sony's F65/F55/F5 RAW uses 3.6 or 6:1 compression, arriraw is uncompressed but only 2.8k, and of course RED doesn't go under 3:1 and few productions choose lower than 5:1. Those seem to be the biggest high end cameras of choice on projects with essentially unlimited camera budgets yet it sounds like people choosing FS700+7Q for 4k should expect a burden of at least 4x more data than any of those higher end camera systems?

The media prices seem somewhat reasonable being a little over 2x market prices for 3rd party SSDs, but if 2 960GB SSDs at $4400 is essentially required to shoot <1hr of 4k, it starts to look less impressive. Sounds like the minimum package for use with an FS700 will probably still cost more than an FS700.
Click to expand...

Dear Noah,

We have permission from Sony to record 2K Raw.

At this time we do not have permission from Sony to record 4K Raw, so we are recording 4K uncompressed.

Of course, we would like to record 4K Raw.

I will need to get back with you on the question of what specific frame rates/modes of the FS700 that the Odyssey7 supports.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
hum.
The FS700 was always the camera a lot of people could afford .... but now ....
7Q + FS700 reording option for Raw + many SSDs when u want to record a lot of highspeed or 4k = ur are very fast at 5000$
When u get with the Sony Hardware Upgrade (prices of 300$ floating around) and Firmware Upgrade (maybe for free) the additional 10bit and 4.2.2 output ... and can immediately with a 800$ recorder (most of the people already have on) do ProRes 4.2.2 10bit with Slog2 .... who cares for RAW????
I thought the 7Q was THE thing on NAB but now its a mixed feeling with those prices. Check the Atomos Blade (also OLED and ProRes Recording for 1000$)

If its just that "RAW thing" for the FS700 users its to pricey in comparison in my opinion.
 
Last edited:
@SKYLIKE,
did you mean that we get 10bit 4:2:2 out after the firmware and hardware upgrade?? that's gonna be huge!! please let us know more!!
 
SKYLIKE said:
hum.
The FS700 was always the camera a lot of people could afford .... but now ....
7Q + FS700 reording option for Raw + many SSDs when u want to record a lot of highspeed or 4k = ur are very fast at 5000$
When u get with the Sony Hardware Upgrade (prices of 300$ floating around) and Firmware Upgrade (maybe for free) the additional 10bit and 4.2.2 output ... and can immediately with a 800$ recorder (most of the people already have on) do ProRes 4.2.2 10bit with Slog2 .... who cares for RAW????
I thought the 7Q was THE thing on NAB but now its a mixed feeling with those prices. Check the Atomos Blade (also OLED and ProRes Recording for 1000$)

If its just that "RAW thing" for the FS700 users its to pricey in comparison in my opinion.
Click to expand...

also thought of that,
we could just get an odyssey7, or samurai blade, and record 10bit 422, without having to save huge RAW files. at this point, i would even take a samurai blade over an odyssey - more portable, lower cost ssd's, ProRes option.
i really like my fs700 and the footage i'm getting out of it, but the codec is really limiting when it comes to grading. a codec similar to the good old HVX's P2 codec would be nice :)
 
freiheit said:
@SKYLIKE,
did you mean that we get 10bit 4:2:2 out after the firmware and hardware upgrade?? that's gonna be huge!! please let us know more!!
Click to expand...

Its just an assumption. A Firmware Upgrade that does Slog2 but maintains 8bit is totally senseless. And the only reason for the hardware upgrade is to get Slog2 out auf the SDI ... so 10bit 4.2.2 like a normal SDI connection.

Just an assumption but otherwise would be very senseless because u would be bound to Sony HFR or Odyssey ... and those need also an upgraded SDI connection.
 
I have the pix 220i right now.

Sorry to repeat, but does this mean with the DS700 upgrade and firmware upgrade I can get 10bit 422 on my Pix 220i?

I find the Odyssey as others point out, just too expensive. I can afford it, but not sure I will bother if the above is true.
 
Michael Erlewine said:
I have the pix 220i right now.

Sorry to repeat, but does this mean with the DS700 upgrade and firmware upgrade I can get 10bit 422 on my Pix 220i?

I find the Odyssey as others point out, just too expensive. I can afford it, but not sure I will bother if the above is true.
Click to expand...

No, at this stage there's been no mention or confirmation of any kind from Sony, that the FS700's SDI port will output a 10-bit video signal after the hardware/firmware update - it's purely speculation at this time.
 
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