24fps or 30fps for Cooking Show?

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ninjaboss

Member
Hello there dvxusers,

In your opinion, what would be the preferred framerate for a cooking show video production? I'm filming 12 episodes this weekend and this has been bugging me a little.

I understand 30fps gives footage a home video feel while 24fps is the cinematic feel. I would prefer the cinematic feel but what do you guys think?

Also, if you have any advice for filming cooking shows, I'm all ears. My main goal is to light my subject and kitchen evenly lit, keeping the midtones high and keeping the color of the fleshtones and food as authentic as possible.

Thanks!
 
It's a cooking show, not a film. 30 fps.

We used to do live cooking shows. Yes, even light, keep it bright. Nobody wants to watch a cooking show that is setting a mood. They want to be happy. But sure, you can do some lighting to focus on the foreground and tone down the background if you like, but it really isn't necessary.
 
Paul F said:
It's a cooking show, not a film. 30 fps.

We used to do live cooking shows. Yes, even light, keep it bright. Nobody wants to watch a cooking show that is setting a mood. They want to be happy. But sure, you can do some lighting to focus on the foreground and tone down the background if you like, but it really isn't necessary.
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Agreed. You don't need to add more motion blur to a cooking show or make it look "cinematic". It doesn't add to what people want to see, the food.
 
Rick Bayles's succesful series, Mexico–One Plate at a Time shoots at 24p--with Pannys, and I'd have to agree with many that it's one great looking cooking show.
 
Getting (slightly) off topic, but man - Anthony Bourdain's show just gets better every episode as far as cinematography, editing, music goes. Really more of a travel show, but damn, they do an amazing job with a small crew.
 
It will be viewed on the web and on DVD. Would that be enough to justify the 30fps?

I would really want the food to be the star in these episodes as it's suppose to be so I would think a 30fps framerate would allow you to see more of the action especially on closeup shots with the B Cam.

Feel free to correct me here if I'm not on the right track.
 
Bruce Watson said:
OP is going about this backwards. You decide how it's going to be viewed, then you pick the frame rate.
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I disagree, mostly. The ONLY place this really matters is if shooting primarily for the web, in which case interlaced (60i) video is out.

Past that, frame rate is purely an aesthetic choice based on the desired look for the individual project. 24p and 30p will both be fine for the Internet and for DVD. If for broadcast, which will likely require 60i delivery, 24p can be telecined to 60i and 30p>60i conversion is seamless. So... do you want the 24p look or not? That's up to you.

Personally, I work primarily in 24p unless it is specifically requested otherwise.
 
Michael Carter said:
Getting (slightly) off topic, but man - Anthony Bourdain's show just gets better every episode as far as cinematography, editing, music goes. Really more of a travel show, but damn, they do an amazing job with a small crew.
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Yeah, there was a scene set in a bar last episode that looked like something out of a Nicholas Winding Refn film. Some beautiful work.
 
ninjaboss said:
Hello there dvxusers,

In your opinion, what would be the preferred framerate for a cooking show video production? I'm filming 12 episodes this weekend and this has been bugging me a little.

I understand 30fps gives footage a home video feel while 24fps is the cinematic feel. I would prefer the cinematic feel but what do you guys think?

Also, if you have any advice for filming cooking shows, I'm all ears. My main goal is to light my subject and kitchen evenly lit, keeping the midtones high and keeping the color of the fleshtones and food as authentic as possible.

Thanks!
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I think you should rent a Phantom and do major speed ramping for serious effect. Absent that, shoot 24 fps leave 29.97 to the dust bin of old school technology that was well known to be a compromise even when it was first conceived...
 
Alex H. said:
I disagree, mostly. The ONLY place this really matters is if shooting primarily for the web, in which case interlaced (60i) video is out.

Past that, frame rate is purely an aesthetic choice based on the desired look for the individual project. 24p and 30p will both be fine for the Internet and for DVD. If for broadcast, which will likely require 60i delivery, 24p can be telecined to 60i and 30p>60i conversion is seamless. So... do you want the 24p look or not? That's up to you.

Personally, I work primarily in 24p unless it is specifically requested otherwise.
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This seems like sound advice. 24 or 30p IMO.
 
Alex H. said:
If for broadcast, which will likely require 60i delivery, 24p can be telecined to 60i and 30p>60i conversion is seamless.
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Yes, you can telecine 24p to 60i. But if you're sensitive to 3:2 pulldown judder, it looks like crap. This problem is ugly enough that the DVD spec eventually was expanded to include a 24p flag to allow progressive 24p output from newer progressive scan players. And it caused TV makers to include the ability to show progressive frame output from said players without having to include 3:2 pulldown or convert to 60i, again in newer TVs. I'm just sayin' it's a real problem, I'm not just being picky.

That telecine to 60i for broadcast requires 3:2 pulldown from a 24p source but is seamless from 30p, as you say. And that is why I was recommending that the OP find out what the delivery requirements are before making a frame rate decision. If the majority of the OP's viewers will be seeing the content over broadcast, then 30p is the obvious choice. Otherwise, either 30p or 24p should be fine.
 
Bruce Watson said:
Yes, you can telecine 24p to 60i. But if you're sensitive to 3:2 pulldown judder, it looks like crap.
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This has been standard practice for network television for decades, as network dramas and many sit-coms have been shot on film. Many still are, or are shot in 24p digital. And how many commercial spots are still shot on film or in 24p digital? How many cable programs? Far too many to cite here.

The ONLY reason to telecine 24p material would be specifically for broadcast.

Bruce Watson said:
This problem is ugly enough that the DVD spec eventually was expanded to include a 24p flag to allow progressive 24p output from newer progressive scan players. And it caused TV makers to include the ability to show progressive frame output from said players without having to include 3:2 pulldown or convert to 60i, again in newer TVs. I'm just sayin' it's a real problem, I'm not just being picky.
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This still is not, for me, a valid reason to avoid 24p. It simply means that a telecined version for broadcast would be necessary, if broadcast is even in the mix. The original, 24p version would be the one distributed on DVD and via Internet.

Bruce Watson said:
That telecine to 60i for broadcast requires 3:2 pulldown from a 24p source but is seamless from 30p, as you say. And that is why I was recommending that the OP find out what the delivery requirements are before making a frame rate decision. If the majority of the OP's viewers will be seeing the content over broadcast, then 30p is the obvious choice. Otherwise, either 30p or 24p should be fine.
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The obvious choice is the aesthetic that suits the OP's desired look (or the needs/wishes of the client). Ninjaboss has already established, though, that Internet and DVD are the intended distribution media, so there's no need for 60i here at all.
 
24p and 30p will be hard to tell apart. The video look is 60i, not 30p --- although I guess it would start to come in around 40p.

If it were up to me, I'd shoot everything in 24p. It looks better. Yes, I know 30p should look better, and 60p should look better than 30p, and 120p should look better than 60p. But they don't. You can explain it away by being conditioned from all the 35mm movies, but I don't think it really holds water, particularly when you consider that we've seen at least as much 60i footage by the time we reach adulthood. You know, maybe, it's one of those things we haven't figured out yet, a scientific paradox. Maybe in the year 2100 they will laugh at us for thinking we had everything figured out scientifically, especially now that they know about all the benefits of stroboscopy.
 
Alex is right. Frame rate is an artistic choice; decide that first. Delivery comes later. 24p and 30p can both be delivered as 60i or 60p with no problems, and have been for many decades.
 
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