S1H new price

So basically the jobs I avoid.


QUOTE=OnSet;1986869589]The reason becomes when your clients start requesting higher than 4k resolution (as some of mine have) to give them more re-framing options in post.
Seems to be more of an issue for teleprompter shoots where they're afraid to ask the CEO to do it again and they want 3 framing sizes to cut with. (Having done prompter shoots in the past rigging two cameras shoehorned together behind the glass, the higher resolution single camera recording starts to almost sound reasonable.)[/QUOTE]
 
ahalpert said:
... For a strictly video shooter like myself, an A7SIII with eND, improved autofocus, improved wifi interface, improved low-light would be better. Don't need 6K, least of all in exchange for lower sensitivity and a slower readout speed and no or crappy 120fps. (The 120fps 4K on the A7SIII is really, really good)
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Rent ME-20F SH, if A7SIII low-light performance doesn't work for you.

And, yes, a better camera can do a bit of everything but sometimes someone needs more of a specific feature. I see a bunch of wedding clips on YouTube made on GH-4&5, Blackmagic Pocket 4K&6K, S1H and so on. But, if the wedding takes place in Nosferatu's cave, ME-20F SH just may be the tool for the job.

Though, it's still very high priced years after its release.
 
I never have issues shooting in the dark with my s1h and f1.4 primes basically if I can see it I can shoot it I magi e the a7s3 Would fare even better.


DLD said:
Rent ME-20F SH, if A7SIII low-light performance doesn't work for you.

And, yes, a better camera can do a bit of everything but sometimes someone needs more of a specific feature. I see a bunch of wedding clips on YouTube made on GH-4&5, Blackmagic Pocket 4K&6K, S1H and so on. But, if the wedding takes place in Nosferatu's cave, ME-20F SH just may be the tool for the job.

Though, it's still very high priced years after its release.
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DLD said:
Rent ME-20F SH, if A7SIII low-light performance doesn't work for you.

And, yes, a better camera can do a bit of everything but sometimes someone needs more of a specific feature. I see a bunch of wedding clips on YouTube made on GH-4&5, Blackmagic Pocket 4K&6K, S1H and so on. But, if the wedding takes place in Nosferatu's cave, ME-20F SH just may be the tool for the job.

Though, it's still very high priced years after its release.
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It's not about nosferatu's cave, it's about dance floors. Every wedding has one and they range from very dim to pitch black, but the studios who hire me want them exposed perfectly.

So, maybe you can get an exposure at f/1.4 1/50 ISO12800. But if you want to shoot slow motion, you're losing 1.25-2.25 stops to the shutter speed. And what if you want to stop down or use a slower lens?

Sometimes you can light the dance floor, but that has drawbacks (altering the ambience and, more importantly, altering the behavior of the dancers). And often you're not allowed to light by studio policy or request of the venue or the photographers

Plus the ME-20F SH is HD only, and all my weddings will be 4K within 2 years. and it lacks c-AF, IBIS. Not sure about the weight. The reason I like the A7SIII so much is the combination of features it has moreso than any single feature. If only it had eND, but that won't happen in this form factor or at this price point
 
The dance floor would probably have to be "negotiated". If you can light a portion of it and "rotate" the dancers, then you might get a decent coverage. But if there are disco lights, strobes or lasers ... well, then no one gets out alive.

May try an on-camera light. John Badham I ain't.
 
DLD said:
The dance floor would probably have to be "negotiated". If you can light a portion of it and "rotate" the dancers, then you might get a decent coverage. But if there are disco lights, strobes or lasers ... well, then no one gets out alive.

May try an on-camera light. John Badham I ain't.
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Not totally sure what you're saying

On-camera light combines the worst possible lighting angle/texture and overall look with the most intrusive approach to the subjects. I typically set 2 LEDs (one or both with umbrellas) on 10' stands at the perimeter if I'm allowed to light. And even then, I find that people get more into what they're doing when the lights are off. Plus, unless the ambience is ugly and there are random hard lights with bad color flying around, it's usually best stylistically/mood-wise to work with found lighting.

Anyway, the A7SIII has fantastic sensitivity. Gone are the days of dragging my shutter down to 1/30 and hating myself for doing so. I wasn't trying to make a big critique of the A7SIII, I was just trying to say that I wouldn't trade ISO performance in this application for a 6K sensor. If anything, I'd prefer a higher high base ISO. But for other applications that aren't as starved for light, of course the calculus is different.

But even in a feature film context - look at what Grug said about shooting a Bollywood night driving scene. The FX6 ISO 12800 let him shoot the street as it was. So, even in situations where you have lights at your disposal and time to set them up, it may be more feasible and desirable to work with the available light level that we can capture with this 4K-only sensor

I haven't yet said to myself, "I wish this sensor could capture more detail." But I have said, "I wish this ISO 25600 were less noisy"
 
Z9 rumors - sort of like A1 on creatine. To be announced in late 2021. Z8 is not even rumored. Is there a place between 7 and 9 anyway?

R3 is supposed to be announced in September. The Olympics begin on the 23rd - no spectators after another outbreak, working photographers will be there (tested).
 
Off DP Review.

Yongnuo launches new 20" MFT camera for $600
  • New MFT sensor, 20 million pixels
  • Snapdragon SoC
    , CPU 8 cores 2.2GHz
    , 6GB RAM
    , 64GB storage
    , up to 256GB memory card compatible (Micro SD)
    , 2/3 / 4G network compatible (Nano-SIM)
    , 8 million pixel front camera
  • 5.0-inch tilt touch monitor
  • 4K 30p
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An interesting design and a very interesting price. Which is a good estimate where camera prices ought to be.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65304673
 
ahalpert said:
Pffft. Flagship smartphones are priced around $1200+ and there's no way that a fully featured interchangeable lens camera of this design from a reputable company would sell for less. But yes, I think that an android powered MILC could be interesting
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"Reputable" companies still run their production lines in places like China, Vietnam and Thailand. (OK, some of the higher end units are made in Japan). And Yongnuo packages a lens on top of that. Of course, there are no reviews yet. The previous Yongnuo MFT wasn't very good. But it was very inexpensive.

As to smartphones, the top of the line is in the mid-1,000's but there are a lot of well reviewed models in the $600-$800 range too and the best value is probably less than a grand.

PS. Should the notifications off posts be disabled or enabled?
 
DLD said:
"Reputable" companies still run their production lines in places like China, Vietnam and Thailand. (OK, some of the higher end units are made in Japan). And Yongnuo packages a lens on top of that. Of course, there are no reviews yet. The previous Yongnuo MFT wasn't very good. But it was very inexpensive.

As to smartphones, the top of the line is in the mid-1,000's but there are a lot of well reviewed models in the $600-$800 range too and the best value is probably less than a grand.

PS. Should the notifications off posts be disabled or enabled?
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Have you seen what Yongnuo is doing with lenses and lights? They're okay-ish... but I wouldn't buy an airbag, parachute, or helmet with equivalent build quality or quality control. I can't afford equipment failure on a shoot. Losing a single client would vastly outweigh any cost savings on the camera.

Which is a larger issue here - saving this type of money is only useful for newcomers. If you're doing business at volume, the costs of a real camera and lenses amortize rapidly. People aren't complaining about the cost of canon/sony cameras

And there are just so many features on canon/sony or red/arri that benefit from deep design history. Autofocus for sure, and also user interface or compatibility with an ecosystem of accessories that serve specific needs in a shooting environment.

That's one of the exciting things about using android os - the possibility to evolve what the camera can do. (Although most of what makes smartphones exciting is computational photography, and doesn't that rely on having multiple sensors?) But presumably, if yongnuo could get the camera to do what the A7SIII can do (minus high ISO performance), they'd charge more to cover their costs.

Sure, I have a <$200 galaxy phone because I break my phones regularly and I don't do a lot of phone photography. And it works fine. But the best cameras and camera features always go to the flagships. If you want a deal on a good camera phone, you're better off buying an outdated flagship than a current budget model

And look at hard drive prices - they've been stuck at $20/TB mininum for years. I keep expecting them to drive lower, but the price is sticky for whatever reason
 
Yes but it's not a pro camera. It's a budget toy. The question is whether it'll have any traction in the market, with the current generation of smartphones having a combination of optical/digital zoom. I doubt it. That Samsung K-Zoom with 10X optical didn't in 2014 and the 2021 periscopes are good enough for pretty much anyone not interested in pro/enthusiast level photography/videography.

But its price for camera+lens+whatever is rather attractive. Now, what about its quality control? We'll find out. Maybe.
 
DLD said:
Yes but it's not a pro camera. It's a budget toy. The question is whether it'll have any traction in the market, with the current generation of smartphones having a combination of optical/digital zoom. I doubt it. That Samsung K-Zoom with 10X optical didn't in 2014 and the 2021 periscopes are good enough for pretty much anyone not interested in pro/enthusiast level photography/videography.

But its price for camera+lens+whatever is rather attractive. Now, what about its quality control? We'll find out. Maybe.
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So when you say that $600 is where camera prices ought to be, you mean for the hobbyist segment?

Personally, I don't care about budget toys. But I do find the idea of having a more powerful and flexible OS in my camera intriguing. Take, for example, Imaging Edge Mobile - the Sony app that lets me wifi monitor and control my A7SIII from my smartphone. Very cool option (that most equivalent camera brands have now). But it's so lacking in customizability and it's not growing in that regard. I would love more and more options for camera controls and display, or basic functions like scanning for frequencies to use that have less interference

yongnuo traction in the market - I doubt it? I mean, it's not even a phone, right? The whole appeal of smartphone cameras is the marriage of something you need and will constantly carry with something you want to use sporadically/unexpectedly. And will the quality be appreciably better than an iPhone? I could see this product being nice for a specific user who wants to use specialized lenses and has a $2K total budget. But I doubt it will make waves
 
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Technically speaking, for this contraption to become a phone, all it needs is an RF chip and those are only a couple of bucks. Otherwise, it's a portable computer with one large sensor (MFT vs. 1/2.3 or whatever). But it may have certain advantages, such as an ability to edit image in camera that a typical ILC doesn't. (Zeiss ZX1 has it but it's $6,000 and the reviews are dismal)
 
CR thinks/reports that Canon will release an $800 full frame camera in 2022. Canon EOS RP (26 MPX,) is already down to $1,000 (and it has been there a while) but moving down to $800 is a fairly aggressive move, if Canon keeps a moderately reasonable feature set without too much crippling. A low entry level price point will be to win the market share from Fuji and Sony APS-C models. Canon already has 32.5 MPX APS-C units with 90D. Fuji would then have to respond with an 8K/42-ish MPX H2 that was bandied about earlier in the thread. Sony would have to update its A6XXX line too.

The overall behavior of the Japanese photo-video cartel isn't dissimilar to today's OPEC. With the threat of the electrically aided automobile threatening to drastically cut the demand for gasoline, OPEC is seriously thinking of taking the limits off its output and forcing its higher cost competitors out before they find themselves stuck with lots and lots of oil and no one to sell it to. With the declining sales of the photo-video gear, the collusion makes little sense also. A 40% market share of nothing is still nothing.
 
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DLD said:
CR thinks/reports that Canon will release an $800 full frame camera in 2022. Canon EOS RP (26 MPX,) is already down to $1,000 (and it has been there a while) but moving down to $800 is a fairly aggressive move, if Canon keeps a moderately reasonable feature set without too much crippling.
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I think it's smart. If a FF camera with a kit lens is the same cost as a flagship iPhone, then a person thinking of upgrading their phone for a better camera can reasonably consider iPhone vs Canon. Meanwhile, the camera is just a gateway drug to buying lenses and accessories that amount to many times the cost of the camera.

They don't even have to cripple it meaningfully because most noobs only pay attention to a couple specs (sensor size, resolution). Only once you know more do you care about burst rate, buffer size, blackout free, evf resolution, number of AF points, minimum light required for AF, etc.

The video side will have to be crippled as usual, but I believe this is marketed mostly to stills shooters and that the video offering will be adequate to their needs
 
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That's right, but ... the lower photo goes, the lower video follows. It's still a value/bang-for-the-buck proposition. A 30-32 MPX sensor with an 8-bit line-skipping video can sell for $800 but it makes Sony's 24 MPX 8-bit line-skipping APS-C line terrible value at above that amount. So, if Sony responds with 10-bit video - which it can do almost instantly - on their APS-C, then Canon becomes a pacesetter for the rest of the field. And even Canon itself has to add a $1,500-$1,700 model that's better than EOS R. It's much like with 8K making 4K very affordable.

PS. Jared the Fro switched to R5 a year ago and his studio footage looks gorgeous (they record at 4K HQ). A month ago he did a paid review of One Plus 9 Pro - and got beaten up for it in the comments section - for stills mostly and found the actual prints to be good enough even visavis the ILC's. His shot selection was limited to roughly what one might do with the wide and the standard primes but the overall camera performance of a $1,000 smartphone was really quite impressive.
 
I feel like there are a million differentiators between smartphones and dedicated cameras that discerning users will care about... ergonomics, evf, battery/card replacing... the IQ of smartphones can be great without threatening to steal serious users. Amateurs and hobbyists can have at it with phones. And yes, I realize that they are a vastly larger and more profitable segment than professionals.

If canon cripples this new camera properly, it won't undercut sony APS-C in video. And anyone who already owns sony will be invested in lenses etc, making a switch expensive. But certainly going forward, canon will be sucking pro newbies into their ecosystem, and sony will really need an equivalent <$1k FF body to prevent that from happening. It'll be interesting to see what the video specs are on this new camera
 
Is Panasonic going to announce the S2H in August & is anyone anticipating a (nice condition) used S1H to drop below $3kUS avg before next year?
 
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ahalpert said:
... If canon cripples this new camera properly, it won't undercut sony APS-C in video. And anyone who already owns sony will be invested in lenses etc, making a switch expensive. But certainly going forward, canon will be sucking pro newbies into their ecosystem, and sony will really need an equivalent <$1k FF body to prevent that from happening. It'll be interesting to see what the video specs are on this new camera
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The way I'd look at it is that, switching or not, a decent FF camera for $800 will kill the existing APS-C models until there's something better available. Sony's rumored to have A7IV come out at some point for $2,500 but they might need more than a semi-outdated A7III for $1,500 or so. A7RII is a great buy for stills at $1,200 though.

PS. No new S2H rumors. The messages from Panasonic are sort of, "Ya, at some point but not now". DP Review just did a video about their gear and picked S1H as their go-to camera. Since they mostly shoot stationary target - i.e., Chris - lack of auto focus isn't deemed to be a problem. And V-Log and the absence of overheating is greatly appreciated.

R3 is rumored to already be out in the wild with footage available upon the official announcement in September. Then, there'll be a Sony or two. Z9 in December. Maybe Fuji medium format GFX 50s too. For the time being, Panasonic looks to be in a holding pattern.
 
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