Will EX-1 be leaps and bounds better than HVX?

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The cam looks very interesting, can't wait to see some footage. Some of the design seems a bit haphazard though, like the xlr placement and how far the onboard mic come over the lense (see Nigel Cooper's review for pics).

I think this will be a great (lowlight) wedding/doco camera.
 
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In all fairness, Sony also warned about Flickering and Aliasing, which are common problems in CCD sensor camera too on the same page.

If anyone wanted to refer the manual, its on page 116.

quote from manual

"White flecks:
...fine white flecks may be generated on screen in rare cases, caused by cosmic rays, etc.....

: when operating at high environmental temp
: when you have raised the master gain (sensitivity)
: When operating in Slow shutter mode
"



Barry_Green said:
Read the manual last night. Sony's own manual has a section on CMOS issues, and they point out that yes you're going to experience the partial exposure and skew/wobble effects. They also list another one, white flecks in the video. They say "these are not defects".

So take that however you want, but this optimism that the EX1 won't exhibit rolling shutter artifacts seems unwarranted when their own manual tells you it will.
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Dxmetal said:
"White flecks:
...fine white flecks may be generated on screen in rare cases, caused by cosmic rays, etc....."
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So what are we saying? That this might not be the ideal camera to take on interplanetary expeditions? S*&t! I'd better start looking all over again.
 
harddrive said:
So what are we saying? That this might not be the ideal camera to take on interplanetary expeditions? S*&t! I'd better start looking all over again.
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Hi,

I'd hate to have anything that the company gave a disclaimer upfront that blamed on cosmic rays:grin:.
 
You guys might want to research cosmic rays a little more. Here's a clue: It's not just an "outer space" thing.


- Mikko
 
mikkowilson said:
You guys might want to research cosmic rays a little more. Here's a clue: It's not just an "outer space" thing.


- Mikko
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My point is I don't think I can control 'em.

At least I don't think there is a cosmic defector shield at the Wal-mart that's going to protect the camera.

(Although there was a guy with some tinfoil on his head in the parking lot that was talking about it.)

I haven't a clue how bad the problem is, or if it is even a thing to worry about - it might be like a one a one in a million thing that Sony was being really big in owning up to (yeah, right), but when a major company puts the disclaimer up front as a warning, that doesn't seem, well, promising.

If cosmic rays are about, what else is up?
 
Let's face it, if someone wants to dig deep into ALL of these cams, I'm sure they can find faults. This is even true with RED. It really depends on how often these faults can be viewed. If faults are only viewed during .001% of the time, IMO they are probably not an issue.
The bottom line is.... Does the footage and camera capabilities serve your needs?

I'm hearing the EX1 has decent sensitivity and produces clean footage.
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=773529&postcount=31

Again, as I mentioned before, the EX1 is no reason someone should bail on the HVX200. The HVX200 has quite the feature list and produces some real nice stuff.
Does the HVX200 have its faults, yes it does. I know this goes without saying, it's really a matter of what faults you can live with, and what faults you can not.
 
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I'd don't dispute that all cams have strengths and weaknesses. However, I do not believe the provided review is entirely objective.
 
Well, your entiled to your beliefs.

David, were you refering to Nigel Cooper's review or what Jody Eldred mentioned on my link above?
I guess it's possible, but based on his credetials, I doubt it.
It's not like his only income is from one source. Jody has a lot of creditials
that stem from all major television networks, including an Emmy award and DGA nomination.

Eldred has worked on ABC News "Nightline" series, "The Iraq War: Fox 2/5". He has shot and directed hundreds of documentaries and news stories around the world for ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, the BBC, and National Geographic, including programs such as 20/20, PrimeTime Live, Good Morning America, Dateline NBC, 48 Hours, Frontline, Oprah, and The Tonight Show. His work also includes high definition and video shoots for CBS' "JAG", "NCIS", and NBC's "Medium".

I work with another videographer who has the RED coming next month.
He feels the same way as I do when it comes to manufactures. We could care less who produces the gear as long as YOU are happy with it's abilites and performance.

You are right though, just as in the HVX200 rollout, there's a lot of speculation, but one nevers knows for sure until they get THEIR own hands on one.

Since we've ordered two (for now), I guess I'm going out on the limb this time.
 
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Hi Steve,

It's quite possible that the mysterious "white flecks" are also known as "grain".:Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

What I was getting at and still maintain is that any early reports written prior to say January/February are likely written by people who are at the very least 'friendly' to Sony, regardless of how well honored or bestowed they are. In fact, Sony would like to seek the more honored or bestowed of them out to put the cameras in their hands. Some, if not all, have outright vested interests.

What's tough is that even the trades have a stake in what they print, too. A bad review puts their advertising dollars at risk.

The EX1 looks great. But I'm certainly going to let others beta test it.
 
MikeGunter said:
The EX1 looks great. But I'm certainly going to let others beta test it.
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Hmmm.
That's true with EVERY thing ever sold and marketed.

Well, believe me, I'm not basing my opinion on one persons review last spring. :happy:

Also, I sure remember the immense hype and preorder sells for the HVX200.
It's all marketing. Some may buy, some may not, and some may buy unseen such as the HVX200 and every other camera.
I had access to an HVX200 to test and dropped out of the preorder list. Who knows, If I don't like the EX1, it's off to Ebay it goes!
LOL
At 6500. I'm willing to find out, especially since it offers 4:2:2 10bit via SDI.
 
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Stevet said:
I know this goes without saying, it's really a matter of what faults you can live with, and what faults you can not.
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That's all I've been trying to say. Can you live with the wobble and partial exposure effects? or not? For some uses it'll be fine, for others it'll be problematic. Just go into it with your eyes open. The wobble is there, the rolling shutter is there. It's been confirmed by firsthand reports, it's been mentioned in their manual, yet people still want to believe that it won't have those issues.

If you think the rolling-shutter issues are not going to be a problem, then by all means go forward full-steam-ahead. If the type of things you shoot will be compromised or ruined by a rolling shutter, well, better you find out now before a) sinking a lot of money into a system that won't work for you, and (worse) b) having footage ruined.

Just know what you're getting into.
 
Well, It's back to not all rolling shutters are created equal, just like everything else.

If it's so bad, help me understand why RED went with it? I'm sure it was not the cost.
Having said that, there were many who frowned upon hearing the RED has the rolling shutter.

Everything has its limitations. I guess it's the old "pick your poison". Many of those who frowned on
the Red's shutter, also placed an order. I guess they choose their poison. LOL

I'm not a fan of CCD smear. I recall the HVX200 faired OK with smear, better than the HD100, that's for sure.
 
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Red went with a rolling shutter probably for the same reason everyone else does -- cost. These are all low-cost options. I mean, the Red level of performance has been available elsewhere, but never anywhere near the price level. The EX1's performance matches the performance of their existing 1/2" products, but what's the difference with the EX1? it's 1/4 the price. And the HV20 -- would anyone seriously even pay attention to it if it was $3,000? Of course not. It garners attention because it's under $1,000.

With that said, Red had worse rolling-shutter issues early on. They addressed it and fixed it as they could. Some still remains -- Jim has said that there is still some skew in the image. Enough to matter to people? We'll see. Maybe they've overcome it to the point where it's not an issue for most people?

In any case, the EX1 is due on the market in a week or two. Soon enough we'll see how much of an issue it really is (or isn't). But there's some there, that's already been confirmed.
 
Barry_Green said:
In any case, the EX1 is due on the market in a week or two. Soon enough we'll see how much of an issue it really is (or isn't). But there's some there, that's already been confirmed.
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Agreed.
If it's bad, expect to see a couple on ebay! LOL
Well, from early reports, it should not be an issue.
I'll know in two weeks and will be looking for it.
 
Aren't you the same Steven Thomas who noticed the rolling shutter flicker over on DVInfo though? I was looking through that thread and it looks like they're already seeing the artifacts. Rolling shutter with fluorescents causes flickering and pulsing bands, and there was mention of the pan showing three distinct bands which is a classic rolling shutter artifact -- look at the vertical scrolling horizontal stripes in my rolling shutter article's fluorescent footage and you can see how that banding happens and how it's due to a rolling shutter.
 
That's it, I'm cancelling my order! Just kidding.
I see the flickering. Don't forget this was from someone who picked the camera up at the display without actually making any correct settings to alleviate flickering under those fluorescent lights. Also, one out of those three clips shows no flicker. The user must of been jacking around it.


I've had flickering issues in the past with video under certain lighting.
How it displays itself different due to a different shutter is one, but flickering does not look good, no matter how it manifests itself.
In fact shooting some recent footage under PARs and moving heads with MSD lights, I battled flickering issues. We were using the HD100,
which has a global shutter.
 
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Barry_Green said:
..............this optimism that the EX1 won't exhibit rolling shutter artifacts seems unwarranted when their own manual tells you it will.
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I don't think I'm hearing anyone saying that there will be NO artifacts, just that they won't be anything like as significant as in bottom end products.

As far as fluorescent flicker goes, there are many causes for that - incorrect shutter speed for one. A post on the internet showing flicker does not by itself indicate a poorly performing rolling shutter. The EX I looked at was in fluorescent lighting, and there was certainly nothing like that evident there.
 
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