Zacuto Z Finder Pro or Redrock Micro EVF???

N

Nicholas Natteau

Veteran
I'm thinking about getting the Zacuto Z finder Pro or wondering whether I should wait for the Redrock Micro EVF's release.

Does anyone know how many dots there are on the Zacuto Pro screen?

Redrock's upcoming EVF supposedly has 1.4M dots and is allegedly as high-res as Red's EVF Bomb.

That's why I'm not sure whether I should go ahead and get the Zacuto Pro or wait for the Redrock EVF. Has anyone had a chance to see Redrock's EVF up close?

Thanks very much for any feedback on this.
 
there's a lot of uncertainty about the RRM EVF, their message about resolution, pixels and dots doesn't seem consistent...

I mean, they say "1.4M dots", which is 466K pixels, probably 920*520 or something like that, while the red bomb is 720p, 1280x720, 921 Kpix, 2.8 Mdots
 
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It would be a very safe bet to say that they're equal resolution. Don't get distracted by the "dots" thing. You'll see on redrock's page that after I pointed out the question of "dots" vs. "resolution", they removed any reference to the Red BOMB EVF.

The redrock offers 1.2m "dots", which is typically meaning that it's counting red, green, and blue separately. Which means it's probably about 848x480 or so. Which is about the same as the Zacuto.
 
Yes, and when somebody pointed out that there was "High resolution full-color HD display" written on their page, the HD was removed pretty quickly after. So I think it's almost definitely not gonna be an 1280*720p lcd.
 
Nicholas Natteau said:
I'm thinking about getting the Zacuto Z finder Pro or wondering whether I should wait for the Redrock Micro EVF's release.

Does anyone know how many dots there are on the Zacuto Pro screen?

Redrock's upcoming EVF supposedly has 1.4M dots and is allegedly as high-res as Red's EVF Bomb.

That's why I'm not sure whether I should go ahead and get the Zacuto Pro or wait for the Redrock EVF. Has anyone had a chance to see Redrock's EVF up close?

Thanks very much for any feedback on this.
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Resolution wise it's hard to say what the Redrock will be because they have not disclosed which panel or actual resolution they are using. All I can tell you is our resolution is amazing and you really don't need anymore. Their is a certain point where other problems become your weakest link in the chain, like the 5D going into 480p mode when in record, piller boxing and other problems. What I would say is that the Zacuto system is a completely different way of shooting then the RR. Watch our second video call ergonomics to see our approach with a two piece system that we believe allows you to shoot with more possibilities then with a one piece solution. http://zfinderevf.com
 
I'd also like to point out that Redrock was almost certainly not trying to mislead anyone. I believe that Brian sincerely thought that the dots meant what it sounded like. If it wasn't for Sony's marketing tactic of calling their 640x480 display a "1920x480" display, I might not have known about it either. And as soon as it was pointed out to Redrock, they immediately quashed anything that could in the slightest way be misunderstood, and Brian said he'd get to the bottom of it. So I just want to make sure that nobody's casting any aspersions on Redrock; I'm sure it's a case of that they repeated the stats that their LCD manufacturer told them, without understanding that LCD manufacturers routinely inflate the number x3 because they count red, green, and blue individually.
 
zacuto said:
Their is a certain point where other problems become your weakest link in the chain, like the 5D going into 480p mode when in record, piller boxing and other problems. http://zfinderevf.com
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There are other cameras than the 5d,

IMO the 5d is flawed for focus off the monitor due to the low res output

When using the 5d other methods must be used to gain focus

Hurlburt for example has employs a focus puller ($500+ per day) using marks and a ($10k) electronic distance aid and properly calibrated cine lenses ($50k)

To use him as an example in your video, and to pick on the 5d is slightly misleading as to the value of this tool, especially on the 7d board which this is

If I had a puller I would use a 4 inch SD transvideo monitor which is small light bright and built like a brick and also doesnt rely on the sh1t HDMI cable that cannot be relied upon to fall out of the canon camera

Having no puller i avoid the 5d, and use a smallHD monitor with 720 res and prey for a good HDMI connection (praying on set is never good)

S
 
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morgan_moore said:
There are other cameras than the 5d,

IMO the 5d is flawed for focus off the monitor due to the low res output

When using the 5d other methods must be used to gain focus

Hurlburt for example has employs a focus puller ($500+ per day) using marks and a ($10k) electronic distance aid and properly calibrated cine lenses ($50k)

To use him as an example in your video, and to pick on the 5d is slightly misleading as to the value of this tool, especially on the 7d board which this is

If I had a puller I would use a 4 inch SD transvideo monitor which is small light bright and built like a brick and also doesnt rely on the sh1t HDMI cable that cannot be relied upon to fall out of the canon camera

Having no puller i avoid the 5d, and use a smallHD monitor with 720 res and prey for a good HDMI connection (praying on set is never good)

S
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For narrative work you can always use a follow-focus and floor marks. Believe it or not people used to pull focus all the time with no monitoring of the image :)
 
Ben_B said:
For narrative work you can always use a follow-focus and floor marks. Believe it or not people used to pull focus all the time with no monitoring of the image :)
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+1

Also it makes no sense to me to think you or anyone is paying a focus puller $500 a day , that's funny in todays economy...... Please don;t let me dig amazing Movies being shot on a 5d which outputs sd and a single person or small crew bringing these productions to life. The days of those huge budgets are over.
 
Absolutely - I said use a SD monitor, that what I do with my 5d

I believe lilliput and the like make them for about $100

Im not trying to sell you a 480p device hung of a sh1t connection and hyping it as being a useful focus aid or in fact useful in any way : RR and Zacuto are

S
 
life4eva said:
+1

Also it makes no sense to me to think you or anyone is paying a focus puller $500 a day , that's funny in todays economy...... Please don;t let me dig amazing Movies being shot on a 5d which outputs sd and a single person or small crew bringing these productions to life. The days of those huge budgets are over.
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As a focus puller, I beg to differ. I can spot 5d footage from a mile away, particularly stuff shot with still lenses, stuff shot without an AC, or stuff shot with "affordable" follow focus gear.

The 5d has such a shallow depth of field that wide open on a longer lens a person's eyes will be sharp while their nose tip is totally soft. In a case like that, an operator is not going to be able to ride the framing AND the focus at the same time and nail it 100%. One or the other is going to suffer. Obviously there are ways around this limitation: keep your subjects in roughly the same focal plane; shoot with a higher t-stop; use actors in a neck brace; stay off 85mm or tighter lenses; or go for an aesthetic that allows for some loose focus buzzes; etc. But the difference between that and something shot with cine lenses (which have a much larger throw, and better markings) and an experienced AC is like the difference between night and day.

In my personal experience, attempting to follow somebody at a T2 on a tighter, dSLR lens with the 5d is the worst nightmare for an AC. It's like having a follow focus with an inch's worth of backlash... you're never gonna nail it. The 7D is a hell of a lot more forgiving, but the dSLR lenses are just not designed for following focus -- heck, so many of them don't stop at infinity or close focus, that if you ever pull to the end, you lose all your marks anyway.

As for the monitor: taping out is how a real AC does his or her job, unless they've gotten to the point where they can use the Mk1 eyeball accurate within 4 or 5 inches. But with those dSLR lenses, taping out is pointless. They tend to have markings for like 3', 10' 20' infinity, or something crazy like that, with very few in between marks. I can bring my laser ranger and get marks and tape marks on the ground and architectural marks all day long, but it doesn't matter because there's no accurate marks on the lens itself. Again, cine lenses solve that problem. It's what they're designed for. The first DP I ever worked with as a 1st AC would take the onboard monitor off the camera so I couldn't rely on that. But, with dSLRs with dSLR lenses, that monitor is CRUCIAL for an AC, since taping doesn't get you anywhere.

Finally, $500 isn't really a "huge budget" for an AC. I consider that to be a pretty good rate for an AC, on a non-union commercial or music video or something. I've definitely never made that on an indie feature, as a 2nd or a 1st. But, if they're saving money by not paying the crew a living wage, then they can afford some real lenses or a real camera. If they're saving money on the camera package, it better be to pay the crew something that can pay rent, or at least pay kit rentals or something. But, it's true, if a dSLR production had $500 to spend on an AC, I'd wonder 1) what's the DP making? 2) Can I pay my 2nd $475? 3) I'd gladly take $400/day and use some cine lenses, because then I can at least be proud of the job I do.
 
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